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Message
re: Zach Lowe & Kevin Pelton can't imagine a world where Trey isn't starting next year
Posted on 4/23/24 at 8:33 am to ghost2most
Posted on 4/23/24 at 8:33 am to ghost2most
quote:
Losing Ingram is addition by subtraction. Even not adding any talent makes the team upgraded when we have a heathy Zion.
This is such a dumb thing to say. I get many of you hate BI, but don't be an idiot.
No one gets better by losing a 23/5/5 guy that can create his own shot anytime while adding nothing. I get what you are trying to say, and everyone knows Trey needs to start, but don't be ridiculous.
and adding stupid shite like we are better when BI is out and Zion plays than we are when Zion is out and BI plays. Well no shite. Zion is a future MVP candidate. BI is nowhere near that level, so stop putting him in that same stratosphere.
You know when we are better? when BI and Zion both play, and Zion is in shape, like that 25-12 game stretch after christmas. That's a 55 win pace team. And just imagine if they can figure out how to play in the clutch just a little bit. When Zion is the true #1, BI the #2, CJ is the #2b/3 and then Trey is your 4th guy, we are a really, really good team. We aren't going to be better by simply losing our 2nd best player and adding nothing.
3
Posted on 4/23/24 at 8:38 am to 50_Tiger
I saw a report this morning saying the Spurs had no interest in Trae, although they would have interest in Murray if he was available. I know the Hawks want to move Trae, but I don't think they'll be able to unless they are really ready to cut their losses and take a low ball offer.
I like this trade for Murray and Allen except I feel Cleveland is getting off cheap here and Atlanta is getting screwed a little. Cleveland probably needs to send a 1st to Atlanta. This also hinges on Mitchell forcing his way out of Cleveland so the Cavs would want Ingram.
I like this trade for Murray and Allen except I feel Cleveland is getting off cheap here and Atlanta is getting screwed a little. Cleveland probably needs to send a 1st to Atlanta. This also hinges on Mitchell forcing his way out of Cleveland so the Cavs would want Ingram.
This post was edited on 4/23/24 at 8:40 am
Posted on 4/23/24 at 8:42 am to TigerinATL
quote:
and Atlanta is getting screwed a little.
This would be a much better haul than what they were offered this year for Murray. Murray had almost no interest. That's why Trae is going to be on the block.
quote:
This also hinges on Mitchell forcing his way out of Cleveland
All but guaranteed
Lillard and Mitchell this year are going to do damage to small market teams' hopes of getting stars
This post was edited on 4/23/24 at 8:47 am
Posted on 4/23/24 at 8:45 am to TigerinATL
quote:
I like this trade for Murray and Allen except I feel Cleveland is getting off cheap here and Atlanta is getting screwed a little. Cleveland probably needs to send a 1st to Atlanta. This also hinges on Mitchell forcing his way out of Cleveland so the Cavs would want Ingram.
If 1 additional FRP is the holdup im sending it.
This post was edited on 4/23/24 at 8:46 am
Posted on 4/23/24 at 8:50 am to 50_Tiger
My man, we aren't trading BI and 3 firsts for Jarrett Allen and Dejounte.
BI for Allen would have us getting back 2-3 firsts. LeVert might be worth a late first. He's a chucker who isn't good from 3.
Getting Dejounte would take 3 firsts and Levert, and even then ATL might want more.
Hartenstien isn't going anywhere. He's a Knick for the next few years.
We dont' need Allen and Claxton, two guys who can't shoot. they are essentially they same player. We need a 5 that can shoot, either as the starter or the backup.
I don't mind trying to get Allen, but i really want to make a push for Lauri or KAT. They are the type of centers we need to have with Zion. I know Allen is a great lob threat, and that's absolutely needed if you can't shoot, but having a 5 that can shoot will open up so much for this team, and both Lauri and KAT have enough creation in their game to take BI's spot as the #2 guy.
Everyone loves CJ's new shot chart, and i've shown you guys that it has a ton to do with him being the #3 guy on the team as opposed to the #2, which is what he's been his whole career. CJ took 9 three's in game 1. He also took 9 mid range shots and only 4 shots near the rim. You remove BI and don't replace him with a true #2, then CJ's shot chart will revert back to taking more mid range shots. During that 12 game stretch after BI got hurt CJ went from taking 21% of his shots as mid range shots when both BI and Zion were playing, to taking 34% of his shots as mid range shots with no BI. If CJ is our only #2 guy, we aren't winning shite. CJ as our #3 guy makes us a contender.
BI for Allen would have us getting back 2-3 firsts. LeVert might be worth a late first. He's a chucker who isn't good from 3.
Getting Dejounte would take 3 firsts and Levert, and even then ATL might want more.
Hartenstien isn't going anywhere. He's a Knick for the next few years.
We dont' need Allen and Claxton, two guys who can't shoot. they are essentially they same player. We need a 5 that can shoot, either as the starter or the backup.
I don't mind trying to get Allen, but i really want to make a push for Lauri or KAT. They are the type of centers we need to have with Zion. I know Allen is a great lob threat, and that's absolutely needed if you can't shoot, but having a 5 that can shoot will open up so much for this team, and both Lauri and KAT have enough creation in their game to take BI's spot as the #2 guy.
Everyone loves CJ's new shot chart, and i've shown you guys that it has a ton to do with him being the #3 guy on the team as opposed to the #2, which is what he's been his whole career. CJ took 9 three's in game 1. He also took 9 mid range shots and only 4 shots near the rim. You remove BI and don't replace him with a true #2, then CJ's shot chart will revert back to taking more mid range shots. During that 12 game stretch after BI got hurt CJ went from taking 21% of his shots as mid range shots when both BI and Zion were playing, to taking 34% of his shots as mid range shots with no BI. If CJ is our only #2 guy, we aren't winning shite. CJ as our #3 guy makes us a contender.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 8:56 am to TeddyPadillac
KAT for BI works straight up, and would clear up a logjam for both teams, but you would need to be committed to a Zion / KAT core because his extension kicks in next season and he goes up to 50mil per.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 8:58 am to TeddyPadillac
Agree to disagree. BI dribbles the air out of the ball, bogs down the offense ecosystem, refuses to increase percentage of the higher value 3s and drives in his game, and is mediocre defensively. You can throw final stat line averages out there all you want but he’s not a + + winning player at baseline and he doesn’t take over in the clutch. Is it a risk to turn him into unknown assets? Yes. But extending him big dollars locks this team into a play in or low seed future. I’d rather swing for the big run than have a winning team that exits early every year.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 9:03 am to Pels_Yaz
The idea of JV in OKC makes me ill.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 9:03 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
BI for Allen would have us getting back 2-3 firsts.
Are we sure about that? Cleve is essentially trading BI for Allen and Levert with Levert getting rerouted to ATL to help facilitate Murray.
Allen is an elite rim protector and can run. I can live with him not shooting the three because we are already going to have 2 shooters + Zion on ball pretty much always.
Herb would have another friend on the defensive end.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 9:06 am to saints5021
BI for KAT does make a lot of sense for both teams. He's one of the few bigs that actually would create space for Zion. Before Gobert arrived he managed to maintain a decent rebounding number after he started taking 6+ 3s a game. KAT actually is what people have always dreamed Myles Turner would be for the Pels. All of that being said, I still have a ton of reservations regarding KAT, mostly injury history and defense, but it's one of the few BI trades where I feel we don't take a step back to go forward later.
From the Wolves perspective, not only does it balance the roster, I bet BI would be for them everything we wish he would be here. Ant is clearly the alpha there, so no pecking order dispute. Also, the year BI went from 1.8 3PA to 6.2 3PA, that was Chris Finch's offense under Uncle Al.
From the Wolves perspective, not only does it balance the roster, I bet BI would be for them everything we wish he would be here. Ant is clearly the alpha there, so no pecking order dispute. Also, the year BI went from 1.8 3PA to 6.2 3PA, that was Chris Finch's offense under Uncle Al.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 9:10 am to Jojodaddy
quote:
Agree to disagree. BI dribbles the air out of the ball, bogs down the offense ecosystem, refuses to increase percentage of the higher value 3s and drives in his game, and is mediocre defensively. You can throw final stat line averages out there all you want but he’s not a + + winning player at baseline and he doesn’t take over in the clutch. Is it a risk to turn him into unknown assets? Yes. But extending him big dollars locks this team into a play in or low seed future. I’d rather swing for the big run than have a winning team that exits early every year.
You can say that all you want.
We were a 55 pace win team over nearly half a season when he and in shape Zion were playing together.
And as i said, i don't disagree that moving him and inserting Trey isn't the right move, simply that removing him from the team and adding nothing and we'll be better is an asanine thing to say.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 9:20 am to TigerinATL
quote:
BI for KAT does make a lot of sense for both teams.
I think it really does.
We need that stretch 5. They don't need two bigs, as no one plays like that anymore.
It would be really nice if the Suns beat them in the 1st round, b/c it'll make them think things over.
and as i said before, if we can have a top 10 defense with JV and Larry, then we can with KAT. And even if it dips a little, i think we'd be a top 3 offense for sure.
the one downside of a trade like that is I think it would be difficult to not be a tax team next year if we did it. We'd need at least 4 more guys (not including Naji) and only have $17M to get them. If Naji got $9M and the first round pick gets amost $3M, your left with $5M to get a backup 4 and 5. And you'd need to trade Larry with BI to make the money work with Minny b/c it would be with KAT's new salary for next year, not this year (I think), but regardless we'd be a tax team.
I honestly don't think they would commit to that.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 9:33 am to TeddyPadillac
If you are trading for KAT than ownership is telling you they will pay the tax.
With that said, it makes much more sense, and is much simpler, to find a coach who can make BI work on this team than it is to trade BI.
With that said, it makes much more sense, and is much simpler, to find a coach who can make BI work on this team than it is to trade BI.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 9:44 am to Solo
KAT is a headcase. I don't want him. Allen doesn't provide spacing but I prefer him.
I think some of yall are gross overrating ingram's value.
If we know ingram's game is obsolete in today's NBA, so do smart GMs.
I don't know what players to target but I know this. The future of the team is Zion, Trey, Herb, Dyson, Jose and Hawkins.
Those are the guys you.need to keep. Use everyone else to get better.
I think some of yall are gross overrating ingram's value.
If we know ingram's game is obsolete in today's NBA, so do smart GMs.
I don't know what players to target but I know this. The future of the team is Zion, Trey, Herb, Dyson, Jose and Hawkins.
Those are the guys you.need to keep. Use everyone else to get better.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 9:45 am to ghost2most
Ingram's shot chart and inability to produce in clutch situations rely diminishes his value imo
Posted on 4/23/24 at 9:49 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
didn’t know the Magic really want to keep Isaac. He barely played this year, but I guess him starting in the playoffs would be a tell tale sign.
I’ve been wanting him since his rookie year.
I don't really get the Isaac love.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 9:57 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
This is such a dumb thing to say. I get many of you hate BI, but don't be an idiot.
No one gets better by losing a 23/5/5 guy that can create his own shot anytime while adding nothing. I get what you are trying to say, and everyone knows Trey needs to start, but don't be ridiculous.
and adding stupid shite like we are better when BI is out and Zion plays than we are when Zion is out and BI plays. Well no shite. Zion is a future MVP candidate. BI is nowhere near that level, so stop putting him in that same stratosphere.
You know when we are better? when BI and Zion both play, and Zion is in shape, like that 25-12 game stretch after christmas. That's a 55 win pace team. And just imagine if they can figure out how to play in the clutch just a little bit. When Zion is the true #1, BI the #2, CJ is the #2b/3 and then Trey is your 4th guy, we are a really, really good team. We aren't going to be better by simply losing our 2nd best player and adding nothing.
Agree with your first point.
Problem with bi as the number 2 making 42/45 mil is he is NEVER going to be that guy consistently. He will always be up and down. And not up and down like a normal star who might have a bad game. Up and down like he goes missing for weeks and months at a time.
Maybe Griff signs him to the extension anf trades him at a later date.
Doesn't it tell you something that people think this team would be better off chopping Ingram up into smaller pieces? Would you even suggest that with other players that are viewed like ingram?
Posted on 4/23/24 at 10:02 am to ghost2most
quote:
If we know ingram's game is obsolete in today's NBA, so do smart GMs.
Kind of like how SGA and his career 3.4 3PA at 35% is obsolete? How's that working out for him?
Jamal Murray takes 6 3's a game. Those 2 extra 3's are all the difference in the world i guess. Murray takes as many mid range shots a game as BI does.
Devin Booker takes just as many mid range shots as BI.
Both Murray and Booker get to the rim about the same as BI.
All-star Paolo Banchero needs to change his game quickly b/c it's about to be obsolete with his 4.4 3PA this year at 34%.
Somehow Jimmy Butler keeps dragging teams to the finals without a 3 point shot.
Kawhi averages 4.1 3's per game for his career, never having a season over 5.
and i'm not saying BI doesn't need to take more 3's, b/c he does, but get out of here with him not having any value and his game is obsolete.
As if Jarret fricking Allen is near equal value to BI. No GM thinks that.
Posted on 4/23/24 at 10:15 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Getting Dejounte would take 3 firsts and Levert
Murray was literally on the block this year and got nowhere near that sort of interest. I don't even think they got offered a deferred 1 for him from the Lakers (someone can correct me).
Posted on 4/23/24 at 10:20 am to Chalkywhite84
quote:
Problem with bi as the number 2 making 42/45 mil is he is NEVER going to be that guy consistently. He will always be up and down. And not up and down like a normal star who might have a bad game. Up and down like he goes missing for weeks and months at a time.
ok. post some stats that show this.
and every contender has a #2 making max money.
quote:
Doesn't it tell you something that people think this team would be better off chopping Ingram up into smaller pieces?
Some people? you mean people on here?
Hell i'm one of the idiots that have said plenty of stupid shite over the years. I wanted to trade Zion's arse at the beginning of this season, as did many of us. No one wants to talk about those stupid opinions anymore.
The idiots here want to trade him for pieces, b/c they have this thought that we can win a championship without a #2 guy, which will never happen. I want to trade him for another #2 guy, like KAT or Lauri.
I'm not trading him for Jarrett Allen. That does nothing for us. CJ is not a #2.
Did y'all not watch what Murray did last night, or Maxey?
You have to have a guy that can hit mid range shots late in games in the playoffs. When the fouls aren't being called, it makes it difficult and sometimes not smart to try to get to the rim late in games, and taking step back 3's with a 7 footer in your face isn't a good shot unless your Steph or Dame or Luka
Watch the shots Booker, Durant and Edwards are going to take late in the game tonight.
41% of Luka's shots come from the mid range in his career. Watch him play tonight. That number jumps to 46% in the playoffs.
Kyrie takes 45% of his shots from the mid range in his career, and that number is still 45% in the playoffs.
What some playoff basketball, especially the last 5 minutes. Take notice of the type of shots being taken and ask yourself who on our team can take those shots. And also notice how the coach helps get those guys those shots, which we have a hard time doing.
and again, i'm not saying BI doesn't need to change b/c he absolutely does.
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