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Dyson - biggest passing-lane defensive improvement in the NBA
Posted on 12/12/23 at 7:35 pm
Posted on 12/12/23 at 7:35 pm
From B-ball Index,
Dyson has made the biggest leap in passing-lane defense in the league. Also, notice how high to the top of the chart that he is.
I think most of us started this season and were expecting Dyson to improve offensively, but thought that he was already a fairly complete defensive player, but we didn't realize that he had another level to climb to on the defensive side of the ball.
This isn't the only defensive area where he's improved significantly since last season.
Dyson has made the biggest leap in passing-lane defense in the league. Also, notice how high to the top of the chart that he is.
I think most of us started this season and were expecting Dyson to improve offensively, but thought that he was already a fairly complete defensive player, but we didn't realize that he had another level to climb to on the defensive side of the ball.
This isn't the only defensive area where he's improved significantly since last season.
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Posted on 12/12/23 at 7:43 pm to GOP_Tiger
Dyson in a couple years could be DPOY. He's got all the physical and mental tools
Posted on 12/12/23 at 7:46 pm to aswemajor
He could win it or be the runner up to Herb Jones.
Posted on 12/12/23 at 8:03 pm to SaintTigerPel
Real talk, I expected more from Dyson offensively. He can play D all he wants, right now he is a liability on offense and can't stay on the court for any significant stretch bc he will ultimately start hurting the team with miss 3's and indecisive paint moves that don't consist of his turnaround floater.
I feel the team is showcasing Dyson for a trade bc Hawkins is the future 2 guard off the bench. Jose is the bench point. Naji and Trey are the forwards. Dyson is a luxury but his offense only allows him to play 1-3 quarters. I cringe when he is in the 4th bc it's 4 against 5 on offense and for all that D, if he guarding a star down the stretch, not sure it's panning out in his favor.
Honestly, if we make a BIG move for another "star" or whatnot... Dyson will be included. One would think trade Naji but his value based on potential is capped..
I would trade Dyson and Larry for a defensive minded big that can switch and protect the paint. Still trying to figure out the players that fit the bill...
Would love ya boy from Portland off the bench, Robert Williams or Naz Reid. If we could swing for one of them and maybe another bench scorer, that is a championship contending team. Period.
I feel the team is showcasing Dyson for a trade bc Hawkins is the future 2 guard off the bench. Jose is the bench point. Naji and Trey are the forwards. Dyson is a luxury but his offense only allows him to play 1-3 quarters. I cringe when he is in the 4th bc it's 4 against 5 on offense and for all that D, if he guarding a star down the stretch, not sure it's panning out in his favor.
Honestly, if we make a BIG move for another "star" or whatnot... Dyson will be included. One would think trade Naji but his value based on potential is capped..
I would trade Dyson and Larry for a defensive minded big that can switch and protect the paint. Still trying to figure out the players that fit the bill...
Would love ya boy from Portland off the bench, Robert Williams or Naz Reid. If we could swing for one of them and maybe another bench scorer, that is a championship contending team. Period.
This post was edited on 12/12/23 at 8:18 pm
Posted on 12/12/23 at 8:06 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
we didn't realize that he had another level to climb to on the defensive side of the ball.
I think he has a lot of room for improvement off ball. It's not that he is bad off ball, but his strength is on ball anticipation like Jrue. If he can learn to read the other team like Herb does, he can get even better.
That is asking a lot though, because Herb is truly astounding in his ability to shut down an entire opposing offense on his own. He just reads them and knows where to go next like a HOF QB going through his progressions and has the length and speed to get there and make the play.
This post was edited on 12/12/23 at 8:08 pm
Posted on 12/12/23 at 8:16 pm to TigerinATL
Dyson has actually regressed in his shooting form and confidence. He was shooting with good form last year, feel he is pushing his shot now with little arc.
And tbh, WE have too many players NOW that could get time. Hawk honestly might be the best player off the bench outside of Trey and he getting DNP's. By February, gonna have to consolidate a few players into 1 player that can assimilate into the team with little adjustment time. Best player that can do that is a defensive post player or Frick it, go more offense and get a Stretch 5... Either way, that player will be more valuable to this team than a Dyson. It is what it is.
And tbh, WE have too many players NOW that could get time. Hawk honestly might be the best player off the bench outside of Trey and he getting DNP's. By February, gonna have to consolidate a few players into 1 player that can assimilate into the team with little adjustment time. Best player that can do that is a defensive post player or Frick it, go more offense and get a Stretch 5... Either way, that player will be more valuable to this team than a Dyson. It is what it is.
Posted on 12/12/23 at 8:33 pm to Ijuschill1
quote:Honest question, all the commentary you gave about Dyson being unplayable due to offense also applies to Hawkins being unplayable due to defense. Just wondering why you'd think Dyson can't get much playing time but Hawkins is the best bench player.
Hawk honestly might be the best player off the bench
Hawkins is killing us defensively this season.
Posted on 12/12/23 at 8:34 pm to Ijuschill1
His defense is elite. I'll give him all the time he needs to work on offense. Love watching him play. Also such an underrated rebounder
Posted on 12/12/23 at 8:39 pm to GOP_Tiger
Dyson needs more minutes. He is as elite as it gets on defense. His offense can only get better. But hell with the offense we get from BI, Z, CJ, and Trey all we need is Dyson’s D and rebounding
Posted on 12/12/23 at 9:12 pm to shel311
I understand the argument about Dyson vs. Hawk... And it's valid.
So, I ask, who you trading and who you keeping if you have to include 1 in a trade to get another piece?
So, I ask, who you trading and who you keeping if you have to include 1 in a trade to get another piece?
Posted on 12/12/23 at 9:48 pm to Ijuschill1
quote:
So, I ask, who you trading and who you keeping if you have to include 1 in a trade to get another piece?
I don’t think we are there yet. It probably will come at some point, Denver drafted and developed well enough that they had to trade good young players away in Monte Morris and Malik Beasley.
For now though I want to see them experiment with lineups. I want to see all shooters and Zion. I also want to see an all defensive lineup maybe with BI. See what works and what doesn’t so you know who to keep.
Maybe the answer is keep both to have depth and versatility to play any style. This year isn’t about whether the young guys deserve to stay, it’s about figuring out which of the Big 3 you keep.
Posted on 12/12/23 at 9:50 pm to Ijuschill1
quote:
I understand the argument about Dyson vs. Hawk... And it's valid.
So, I ask, who you trading and who you keeping if you have to include 1 in a trade to get another piece?
Why do we need this false dilemma? They are both young and cheap and provide valuable skill sets. I'm choosing (C) Keep both.
Posted on 12/12/23 at 10:09 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:
His defense is elite. I'll give him all the time he needs to work on offense. Love watching him play. Also such an underrated rebounder
Dyson is a keeper. Perfect fit with Herb on defensive end. Never know when his shot is gonna come around. Will be well worth the wait.
Thybulle was a lousy shooter that nobody wanted a year ago. I assume most everybody still thinks he can't shoot...they'll figure it out at some point this season. Mavs (and eventually Portland) already figured it out.
Posted on 12/12/23 at 10:53 pm to GOP_Tiger
he just needs to be a rookie year offensive version of Herb Jones and he can contribute 30 min a game any night.
he’s been way less than that recently so hope he can get a little bit of a stroke going from deep and gain confidence with the runner and finishing.
he’s been way less than that recently so hope he can get a little bit of a stroke going from deep and gain confidence with the runner and finishing.
Posted on 12/13/23 at 4:43 am to GOP_Tiger
As you can see if you look carefully at the chart, Dyson's passing-lane defense currently ranks fourth overall in the NBA. The three ahead of him are Robert Covington, Matisse Thybulle, and Alex Caruso.
Posted on 12/13/23 at 10:22 am to GOP_Tiger
Wow, what a terrible graph 
Posted on 12/13/23 at 10:30 am to tibebecolston
Dyson just needs a lot of reps on offense. 6 shots a game in a limited role isn't enough for him to develop his offensive game. He needs lots of shots, a lot of scoring freedom, and a lot of ugly games to get where some of you want him to be.
We're just not in a position to allow him to get enough reps and develop his offense. That's just the nature of a team that's ready to compete in May and June.
We're just not in a position to allow him to get enough reps and develop his offense. That's just the nature of a team that's ready to compete in May and June.
Posted on 12/13/23 at 3:16 pm to Ijuschill1
Imagine thinking a guy in just his second year playing elite on one side of the ball shouldn’t be on the court and want to trade him. He should be getting minutes and be developed to the fullest. I said when he was drafted it would take 3-4 years before you really see what you have in him. I’d trade almost everyone on the team besides him and Murphy first if I had to.
Posted on 12/13/23 at 4:08 pm to Ijuschill1
quote:I'd rather not trade either one but if one had to choose, I think it's kind of a no brainer to keep Dyson.
So, I ask, who you trading and who you keeping if you have to include 1 in a trade to get another piece?
He has a talent that is elite right now that is also very hard to find.
Hawkins has a talent that projects to be good or even elite but is still a work in progress but also not as hard to find.
This post was edited on 12/13/23 at 4:09 pm
Posted on 12/13/23 at 4:09 pm to Townedrunkard
My concerns about Dyson on offense stem more from the eyeball test than stats this early in his NBA career.
He doesn't look natural on offense. He looks a bit stiff and mechanical and like he's not sure what do from one second to the next and has to think it out.
Compare that to the guys drafted right in front of him like Mathurin and Sharpe--who look extremely fluid and explosive with the ball--and even guys taken after him like Sochan, Jalen Williams, Agbaji, Griffin, etc...They all look more natural with the ball in their hands than Daniels.
I like Dyson's defense and he's a good athlete with good size. But I'm not sure what's missing in him can be coached into a player. Honestly, he looks like a guy who didn't play the sport at a young age and doesn't come by it naturally, despite his physical gifts. This may limit his upside and call into question why you'd take him in the top-10 of the draft...
He doesn't look natural on offense. He looks a bit stiff and mechanical and like he's not sure what do from one second to the next and has to think it out.
Compare that to the guys drafted right in front of him like Mathurin and Sharpe--who look extremely fluid and explosive with the ball--and even guys taken after him like Sochan, Jalen Williams, Agbaji, Griffin, etc...They all look more natural with the ball in their hands than Daniels.
I like Dyson's defense and he's a good athlete with good size. But I'm not sure what's missing in him can be coached into a player. Honestly, he looks like a guy who didn't play the sport at a young age and doesn't come by it naturally, despite his physical gifts. This may limit his upside and call into question why you'd take him in the top-10 of the draft...
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