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Westworld (HBO) Maesters' Thread *SPOILERS* Episode 1 - The Original
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:12 pm
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:12 pm
This thread is intended for discussion by mature, well-read adults who are psychologically okay with seeing spoilers from a ~50 year old film that is currently being reimagined on HBO.
Now, Ed Harris' character is obviously the Yul Brynner character (the Gunslinger). What are the implications of his appearing to be a guest in the pilot episode?
Obviously, the film was more from the perspective of the guests - Richard Benjamin and James (no, not Josh) Brolin. This series is going to be mainly from the perspective of the hosts - if the tone of the pilot is to be followed.
Thematically, the Gunslinger turned the tables on the guests and just went ham on them. So, whether host or guest, whether he knows it or not, we would expect Ed Harris to lead the host rebellion, would we not?
Other thoughts on the homages to I, Robot, Blade Runner and other classic science fiction themes introduced in the pilot? What it means to be human?
And what about the use of music - contemporary (more or less) songs like Paint it Black and Black Hole Sun? Juxtaposition to the milk imagery?
Now, Ed Harris' character is obviously the Yul Brynner character (the Gunslinger). What are the implications of his appearing to be a guest in the pilot episode?
Obviously, the film was more from the perspective of the guests - Richard Benjamin and James (no, not Josh) Brolin. This series is going to be mainly from the perspective of the hosts - if the tone of the pilot is to be followed.
Thematically, the Gunslinger turned the tables on the guests and just went ham on them. So, whether host or guest, whether he knows it or not, we would expect Ed Harris to lead the host rebellion, would we not?
Other thoughts on the homages to I, Robot, Blade Runner and other classic science fiction themes introduced in the pilot? What it means to be human?
And what about the use of music - contemporary (more or less) songs like Paint it Black and Black Hole Sun? Juxtaposition to the milk imagery?
This post was edited on 10/4/16 at 5:53 pm
6
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:17 pm to Ace Midnight
I don't think this was needed 
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:17 pm to Salmon
quote:
I don't think this was needed
Did you see what happened in the other thread? I'm not going to fence with Cokes wannabes and dance around very obvious issues.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:26 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Juxtaposition to the milk imagery?
I thought blood was the juxtaposition to the milk imagery--it even touched one time. I assumed the music was to underscore the importance of the "man in black."
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:34 pm to Ace Midnight
Do you feel that the one host malfunctioned when the fly landed on his face..perhaps because his intent was to swat it away, which resulted in a critical error as it went against his initial programming?
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:42 pm to SEClint
quote:
Do you feel that the one host malfunctioned when the fly landed on his face..perhaps because his intent was to swat it away, which resulted in a critical error as it went against his initial programming?
I think that is probably the intent - to show the contradictory programming. Same thing with Peter Abernathy (Deloris' "father") - his new focus to protect Deloris' above all else has probably triggered his aberrant behavior. And Deloris swatting the fly at the episode's end seems to be a resolution of that conflict - they are going to begin acting rationally, at the very least, if not according to their programming.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:44 pm to Hot Carl
quote:
I thought blood was the juxtaposition to the milk imagery--it even touched one time.
Could be - the milk is almost the analogue to blood for the hosts. Has to be something with the "none for you" comment to the guests in that one scene of milk infused violence. He was also literally bleeding milk in that scene.
quote:
I assumed the music was to underscore the importance of the "man in black."
Again - could be. I liked the contemporary music on the old player piano. Apparently Nolan is having those reels actually made and the player piano is actually performing those songs. That is kind of cool and an authentic touch.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 1:50 pm to Ace Midnight
they will soon switch to chocolate
Posted on 10/4/16 at 2:02 pm to Ace Midnight
The milk symbolism is pretty old and was used a bit by Shakespeare in Macbeth. Milk symbolized the natural, it flows through humans (Macbeth referred to "the milk of human kindness").
In Westworld, I think it symbolizes the androids' quest to "become human", which obviously is unobtainable since it "spills out of them".
In Westworld, I think it symbolizes the androids' quest to "become human", which obviously is unobtainable since it "spills out of them".
Posted on 10/4/16 at 2:16 pm to Mo Jeaux
Ties in with the Shakespeare elements of the pilot episode as well.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 2:22 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Ties in with the Shakespeare elements of the pilot episode as well.
What else? I've been nursing a cold, so I watched on NyQuil and was going in and out.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 2:36 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
What else?
Delores' father saw the picture from modern day Times Square and freaked out. After that, he started speaking only in Shakespearian quotes. Sir Anthony recalled that his character used to be fond of quoting Shakespeare in a prior host role. The update that tapped into those old residual memories was deemed the cause of this problem.
“‘Hell is empty/And all the devils are here'”–The Tempest (1.2, 215-216)
“When we are born, we cry that we are come/To this great stage of fools”– King Lear (4.6, 165-166)
“By my/Most/Mechanical and dirty hand”– Henry IV (5.5, 33-35)
“I shall have such revenges on you both/That all the world shall–I will do such things–/What they are yet I know not, but they shall be/The terrors of the earth– King Lear (2.4, 276-279)
“These violent delights have violent ends”– Romeo and Juliet (2.6, 9)
Further explanation at thewrap.com
I read it several ways - first of all Shakespeare is not literature, but performance (although it straddles the line now). These hosts are all playing parts for the amusement of others. Second, Shakespeare was big on foreshadowing - and these lines foreshadow fecal matter striking the bladed, rotary ventilation device.
ETA: And, Times Square is the heart of the theater district in NYC.
This post was edited on 10/4/16 at 2:37 pm
Posted on 10/4/16 at 2:46 pm to Ace Midnight
Thanks. Definitely need to re-watch.
Posted on 10/4/16 at 5:46 pm to Mo Jeaux
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Digging the logo.
Posted on 10/5/16 at 12:50 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
Definitely need to re-watch.
Yeah - there will be a lull sometime on Sunday and we'll rewatch the first episode (pilots are usually more loaded in content than average - and we don't know these characters yet) and prime the pump for Ep. 2. "Chestnut."
Posted on 10/5/16 at 12:54 pm to Ace Midnight
I don't think the ed Harris character is the yul Brenner character.
I think it may be the girl that swatted the fly doing the wet works
I think it may be the girl that swatted the fly doing the wet works
Posted on 10/5/16 at 2:24 pm to vilma4prez
quote:
don't think the ed Harris character is the yul Brenner character.
And this is possible - this is what I call "The Twist" - I mean, the trailers have him trying to gin up rebellion. He's abusing the hosts right now and, at least he states, this is because he's trying to figure out the puzzle, message, deeper game, what have you. Whether or not he's really on their side or not remains to be seen.
And, if it turns out to be a double twist - that he's a host who can behave like and perhaps even thinks he is a guest, that would be what I'm calling the "double twist" - and let's face it - this show is not subtle about these classic science fiction themes of artificial intelligence versus human intelligence, robots as proxy for slavery and deeper exploration of what it means to be "human" in this context.
Posted on 10/5/16 at 2:59 pm to Ace Midnight
To the OP: The show isn't going to have much to do in the way of deeper plot with the movie, in my opinion. Which is for the good.
I absolutely disagree. Delores wasn't taken in for a reboot if I remember correctly, she never got the upgrade that made the others glitch. She swatted the fly based on her old programming, or if I am wrong, she swatted AFTER the updates were rolled back. I think she's already fully aware, and has been for some time. She has just been hiding it. They made mention of her being the oldest, I think there are some strong hints that she remembers all of her past already.
At least one of the 'staff' the programmers who work for Anthony Hopkins are going to be revealed as being a Host at some point. That's a plot twist they won't be able to resist. Likely in season two or three. My bet is on Lowe, he seems the most wooden.
quote:
And Deloris swatting the fly at the episode's end seems to be a resolution of that conflict - they are going to begin acting rationally, at the very least, if not according to their programming.
I absolutely disagree. Delores wasn't taken in for a reboot if I remember correctly, she never got the upgrade that made the others glitch. She swatted the fly based on her old programming, or if I am wrong, she swatted AFTER the updates were rolled back. I think she's already fully aware, and has been for some time. She has just been hiding it. They made mention of her being the oldest, I think there are some strong hints that she remembers all of her past already.
At least one of the 'staff' the programmers who work for Anthony Hopkins are going to be revealed as being a Host at some point. That's a plot twist they won't be able to resist. Likely in season two or three. My bet is on Lowe, he seems the most wooden.
Posted on 10/5/16 at 3:08 pm to cokebottleag
quote:
At least one of the 'staff' the programmers who work for Anthony Hopkins are going to be revealed as being a Host at some point. That's a plot twist they won't be able to resist. Likely in season two or three. My bet is on Lowe, he seems the most wooden.
I agree with this. It's almost too obvious (which may end up making them not do it).
Thor's brother (no, not that one, the other one
) is another possibility - he seems keen on rooting out defective hosts - however, he had to agree to Delores' return to the park - SO, he might be their inside guy on the staff.This post was edited on 10/5/16 at 3:09 pm
Posted on 10/5/16 at 3:51 pm to Ace Midnight
Rewatching the opening credits:
The "creation" scenes, appear to depict the hosts being 3d printed with a milky white, waxy substance. Very black and white (much like the "lab" scenes) and the only color is the color of the mesa scenes reflected in the eyes.
There is a blonde girl, dressed all in black, with a revolver (lefty) riding a horse. Appears to be the only fully formed host in the opening credits.
The dissolve to the logo is a skinless host, in the gyro-looking contraption, sinking into a milky white liquid.
The "creation" scenes, appear to depict the hosts being 3d printed with a milky white, waxy substance. Very black and white (much like the "lab" scenes) and the only color is the color of the mesa scenes reflected in the eyes.
There is a blonde girl, dressed all in black, with a revolver (lefty) riding a horse. Appears to be the only fully formed host in the opening credits.
The dissolve to the logo is a skinless host, in the gyro-looking contraption, sinking into a milky white liquid.
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