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The Death of Superman Lives: What Happened?
Posted on 8/7/16 at 8:05 am
Posted on 8/7/16 at 8:05 am
Caught this doc yesterday. It wasn't very well-made, but it was really interesting. I never realized how much work and man hours was put into it--so many thousands of sketches and prototypes, so many people working for so long for nothing but bad memories and good--depending on your perspective stories. A few things:
1) I knew Nic Cage was attached, but I never knew they got so far in the process that he was trying on suits on multiple occasions
2) there are a ton of super-talented and prolific artists working in the arts departments, and I can't imagine how frustrating it is to pour so much into your work only to have either the director( not so much Burton in this project) or producer/studio head shite on it.
3) I felt the worst for the artist who was hired to work on The Matrix, but quit the very next day to work on Superman Lives
4) Tim Burton is kind of a passive pussy. From the stories, it seemed like the producer John Peters really pushed Tim around. But Burton had enough clout at that time to tell Peters to frick off--he may not have--but I think he would have respected a more assertive director and at least been willing to compromise. Peters seemed like he desperately wanted to get the movie made. He was clearly the most passionate person affiliated with the movie
5) I actually kind of liked Peters in the doc.--from his interview anyway--he seemed like a passionate, feisty, likely coked out for the last 30+ years, interesting character
6) the movie may have been a spectacular disaster, but damnit I wish it had been made. Would have gloriously horrible or fantastic.
1) I knew Nic Cage was attached, but I never knew they got so far in the process that he was trying on suits on multiple occasions
2) there are a ton of super-talented and prolific artists working in the arts departments, and I can't imagine how frustrating it is to pour so much into your work only to have either the director( not so much Burton in this project) or producer/studio head shite on it.
3) I felt the worst for the artist who was hired to work on The Matrix, but quit the very next day to work on Superman Lives
4) Tim Burton is kind of a passive pussy. From the stories, it seemed like the producer John Peters really pushed Tim around. But Burton had enough clout at that time to tell Peters to frick off--he may not have--but I think he would have respected a more assertive director and at least been willing to compromise. Peters seemed like he desperately wanted to get the movie made. He was clearly the most passionate person affiliated with the movie
5) I actually kind of liked Peters in the doc.--from his interview anyway--he seemed like a passionate, feisty, likely coked out for the last 30+ years, interesting character
6) the movie may have been a spectacular disaster, but damnit I wish it had been made. Would have gloriously horrible or fantastic.
2
Posted on 8/7/16 at 8:21 am to Hot Carl
I watched this some time back and agree with most of your thoughts.
Really wish they would have gotten Cage to interview.
Anyway, regarding the movie itself, it appears that it would have been a tonal nightmare and something on par with Beetlejuice and Nihhtmare Begore Christmas instead of Burton's Batman movies.
I cringe thinking of Burton's penchant for claymation and stop-motion effects and some of the sketches. It would have been bad.
I just can't imagine Cage pulling this off. Maybe I'm wrong, but his look would have distracted me from the movie itself for much of the time. Even with an Oscar to his credit, he's not brilliant enough to make me forget it's him in this role.
Really wish they would have gotten Cage to interview.
Anyway, regarding the movie itself, it appears that it would have been a tonal nightmare and something on par with Beetlejuice and Nihhtmare Begore Christmas instead of Burton's Batman movies.
I cringe thinking of Burton's penchant for claymation and stop-motion effects and some of the sketches. It would have been bad.
I just can't imagine Cage pulling this off. Maybe I'm wrong, but his look would have distracted me from the movie itself for much of the time. Even with an Oscar to his credit, he's not brilliant enough to make me forget it's him in this role.
Posted on 8/7/16 at 8:37 am to Hot Carl
I read a little on IMDB--I was really fascinated by this John Peters guy. I was sure he was the inspiration for the coked-out producer from True Romance. I couldn't find any link to that, though it says he was supposedly the inspiration for Richard Gere's character in American Gigilo and Warren Beatty's hairdresser character in Shampoo. Which led me to some of Peters' incredible rise in Hollywood.
He was a Hollywood hairdresser who wooed Barbara Streisand(not sure if they ever married), used her to get into running in the upper Hollywood circles, somehow managed to form a partnership with producer Peter Guber, where they produced so many hits that he was actually named head of Sony Pictures after they acquired Columbia. From Hollywood hairdresser to running Sony in like 10-15 years. That is incredible to me.
Now, supposedly he was a raging a-hole, and as a big dude, literally bullied people into getting his way. He would scream at people, put them in head locks, and just randomly start doing full on jujitsu moves in the air out of nowhere. Apparently in the 80s and 90s working with him was hell.
However, the documentary (his interview portion) imho--paints him as a much more mellow guy in his older age, though arrogant and still kinda looney tunes. But he seemed--dare I say--somewhat pleasant, and by far the most fascinating part of this whole saga. I was much more interested in him as a character than Tim Burton's introverted mumblings or even Kevin Smith--who I love to listen to, and who seemed to have no lingering bitterness(in the doc at least).
Long posts short(too late, I know), the movie was interesting due to the subject matter rather than being a well-crafted documentary, but batshit crazy producer John Peters was the most interesting thing about it.
He was a Hollywood hairdresser who wooed Barbara Streisand(not sure if they ever married), used her to get into running in the upper Hollywood circles, somehow managed to form a partnership with producer Peter Guber, where they produced so many hits that he was actually named head of Sony Pictures after they acquired Columbia. From Hollywood hairdresser to running Sony in like 10-15 years. That is incredible to me.
Now, supposedly he was a raging a-hole, and as a big dude, literally bullied people into getting his way. He would scream at people, put them in head locks, and just randomly start doing full on jujitsu moves in the air out of nowhere. Apparently in the 80s and 90s working with him was hell.
However, the documentary (his interview portion) imho--paints him as a much more mellow guy in his older age, though arrogant and still kinda looney tunes. But he seemed--dare I say--somewhat pleasant, and by far the most fascinating part of this whole saga. I was much more interested in him as a character than Tim Burton's introverted mumblings or even Kevin Smith--who I love to listen to, and who seemed to have no lingering bitterness(in the doc at least).
Long posts short(too late, I know), the movie was interesting due to the subject matter rather than being a well-crafted documentary, but batshit crazy producer John Peters was the most interesting thing about it.
Posted on 8/7/16 at 9:17 am to Michael T. Tiger
quote:
Anyway, regarding the movie itself, it appears that it would have been a tonal nightmare and something on par with Beetlejuice and Nihhtmare Begore Christmas instead of Burton's Batman movies.
It was definitely heading that way. Another interesting tidbit, though not spoken by Burton himself, was that he originally wanted Sammy Davis Jr. to play Beetlejuice. I mean, wtf.
quote:
I cringe thinking of Burton's penchant for claymation and stop-motion effects and some of the sketches. It would have been bad.
quote:
I just can't imagine Cage pulling this off. Maybe I'm wrong, but his look would have distracted me from the movie itself for much of the time. Even with an Oscar to his credit, he's not brilliant enough to make me forget it's him in this role.
Oh no, you're right. The movie would have been bad and Nick Cage atrociously bad, but both would have been so gloriously bad. Train wreck you have to see bad. Superman fighting polar bears and ninjas bad. lol:
This post was edited on 8/7/16 at 9:21 am
Posted on 8/7/16 at 9:27 am to Hot Carl
Here's an interesting article about John Peters from Vanity Fair about a tell-all book he either made or just wanted to make a few years ago since he was out of the spotlight. Superman Lives and Wild Wild West effectively ended his career, though he still own some of the rights to the Superman franchise and got paid and a producer's credit for Man of Steel, which he had absolutely nothing to do with.
John Peters' Rise and Fall in Hollywood
John Peters' Rise and Fall in Hollywood
Posted on 8/8/16 at 4:50 am to Hot Carl
Yea that was an interesting doc. Cage would have been terrible as Superman and that Peters guy seemed like a complete loon.
Posted on 8/8/16 at 8:00 am to Hot Carl
quote:
However, the documentary (his interview portion) imho--paints him as a much more mellow guy in his older age, though arrogant and still kinda looney tunes. But he seemed--dare I say--somewhat pleasant, and by far the most fascinating part of this whole saga. I was much more interested in him as a character than Tim Burton's introverted mumblings or even Kevin Smith--who I love to listen to, and who seemed to have no lingering bitterness(in the doc at least).
I've always loved the Kevin Smith stories about dealing with Peters...but this was the first time you got to see Peters respond to them, and it was pretty clear Smith was telling the 100% truth the whole time.
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