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Started By
Message
So. I'll just leave this here RE: Captain America:Civil War
Posted on 5/10/16 at 8:02 am
Posted on 5/10/16 at 8:02 am
SPOLIER: This is not a popular opinion and I will probably be ridiculed for my opinion, but here goes.
REAL SPOILERS FOLLOW
Let me begin with what I liked: Wanda Maximoff was hot. Antman was my favorite performance, especially when he got in Tony's suit. Spider-Man was good. And I liked the villain/non-villain's 'motives'(more on that later).
Now here is where we get nitty: This movie had a hard time deciding if it would be a sequel to Winter Soildier or a sequel to AoU. I'm sorry. And because of that, it leaves a lot of characters underdeveloped and a bad taste in your mouth for them.
So let me get this straight: Is Bucky just some mindless, drooling, serial killer that Captain swears to protect because it is 'not him'? Let's say you knew someone, and I hate to take a serious tone here, who went to war, developed PTSD, and started killing people. Is he now unaccountable for his actions? I mean wtf? Even when Bucky was shown to have murdered the Starks, wouldn't you voluntarily give yourself up out of pure disgust? But what's worse is the Captain fighting for him. This plot line was a joke on its face, it has been, since Bucky's murder tally in the Winter Soldier.
After that, my problems with this movie involve the fact that their is just one really big fight, (which was well done), there was, what seemed to be, 1 and a half hour of nothing before we got there, and that literally everyone wanted to be a comedian. Even serial killer Bucky.
You would think a superhero prison would be guarded by 'supers'. Nope. Cap walks in and frees everyone. Rosey endings for everyone! War Machine really isn't paralyzed! Tony quickly got over his parent's deaths! Even the villain/non-villain, whom I refuse to call Baron Zemo, doesn't get to kill himself. Live with the shame! (I guess?)
And is it the new norm that NO ONE has a secret identity?? Everyone leads a public life except for a kid, Spider-man. Sigh.
Sigh 2.0: I will end on this note: I like BvS, so that means something is wrong with me, and I guess, 29% critics/movie goers? Sorry, but I preferred the real consequences of what superhero intervention, however noble or vigilante-esque, would bring. I like that identities are still trying to be concealed, for all of them. Not sure how RT works. This movie in the MCU pantheon can easily be forgotten as the universe moves forward. It wasn't, IMHO, better than AoU. At least that movie actually killed off a superhero, no matter how flat it felt.
I chose to do a separate thread on this as overwhelmingly the opinion is that this movie was the best one ever. I don't think so. It won't have the numbers people will think it should have.
Let the down votes cascade!
REAL SPOILERS FOLLOW
Let me begin with what I liked: Wanda Maximoff was hot. Antman was my favorite performance, especially when he got in Tony's suit. Spider-Man was good. And I liked the villain/non-villain's 'motives'(more on that later).
Now here is where we get nitty: This movie had a hard time deciding if it would be a sequel to Winter Soildier or a sequel to AoU. I'm sorry. And because of that, it leaves a lot of characters underdeveloped and a bad taste in your mouth for them.
So let me get this straight: Is Bucky just some mindless, drooling, serial killer that Captain swears to protect because it is 'not him'? Let's say you knew someone, and I hate to take a serious tone here, who went to war, developed PTSD, and started killing people. Is he now unaccountable for his actions? I mean wtf? Even when Bucky was shown to have murdered the Starks, wouldn't you voluntarily give yourself up out of pure disgust? But what's worse is the Captain fighting for him. This plot line was a joke on its face, it has been, since Bucky's murder tally in the Winter Soldier.
After that, my problems with this movie involve the fact that their is just one really big fight, (which was well done), there was, what seemed to be, 1 and a half hour of nothing before we got there, and that literally everyone wanted to be a comedian. Even serial killer Bucky.
You would think a superhero prison would be guarded by 'supers'. Nope. Cap walks in and frees everyone. Rosey endings for everyone! War Machine really isn't paralyzed! Tony quickly got over his parent's deaths! Even the villain/non-villain, whom I refuse to call Baron Zemo, doesn't get to kill himself. Live with the shame! (I guess?)
And is it the new norm that NO ONE has a secret identity?? Everyone leads a public life except for a kid, Spider-man. Sigh.
Sigh 2.0: I will end on this note: I like BvS, so that means something is wrong with me, and I guess, 29% critics/movie goers? Sorry, but I preferred the real consequences of what superhero intervention, however noble or vigilante-esque, would bring. I like that identities are still trying to be concealed, for all of them. Not sure how RT works. This movie in the MCU pantheon can easily be forgotten as the universe moves forward. It wasn't, IMHO, better than AoU. At least that movie actually killed off a superhero, no matter how flat it felt.
I chose to do a separate thread on this as overwhelmingly the opinion is that this movie was the best one ever. I don't think so. It won't have the numbers people will think it should have.
Let the down votes cascade!
25
Posted on 5/10/16 at 8:05 am to EthanL
quote:
Let the down votes cascade!
Will do.
quote:
Now here is where we get nitty
You and Fewer Kilometers are hilarious with how much yall have nitpicked this movie. How sad does it make you that Civil War took a giant metaphorical shite all over BvS?
Posted on 5/10/16 at 8:08 am to EthanL
quote:
I will end on this note: I like BvS
Should have put this at the beginning so I wouldn't have wasted the time to read through your post.
Posted on 5/10/16 at 8:09 am to EthanL
quote:
Let's say you knew someone, and I hate to take a serious tone here, who went to war, developed PTSD, and started killing people. Is he now unaccountable for his actions? I mean wtf? Even when Bucky was shown to have murdered the Starks, wouldn't you voluntarily give yourself up out of pure disgust? But what's worse is the Captain fighting for him. This plot line was a joke on its face, it has been, since Bucky's murder tally in the Winter Soldier.
he literally had no choice in the matter. it's not PTSD. it's 100% mind control. not remotely the same thing.
quote:
You would think a superhero prison would be guarded by 'supers'.
wanda was the only one in there with any powers and i'm pretty sure she was choosing to stay there.
quote:
Sorry, but I preferred the real consequences of what superhero intervention,
i agree with that. i think killing CA, BW, or Barton would have been a better play for the sake of the plot.
quote:
: I like BvS, so that means something is wrong with me, and I guess, 29% critics/movie goers?
i did too. but as a movie it fell way flatter than CA:CW.
This post was edited on 5/10/16 at 8:11 am
Posted on 5/10/16 at 8:10 am to EthanL
quote:
Let the down votes cascade!
Done.
Posted on 5/10/16 at 8:11 am to EthanL
quote:
So let me get this straight: Is Bucky just some mindless, drooling, serial killer that Captain swears to protect because it is 'not him'?
Brainwashed and reprogrammed. There is still good in him.
quote:
Let's say you knew someone, and I hate to take a serious tone here, who went to war, developed PTSD, and started killing people. Is he now unaccountable for his actions?
PTSD and Manchurian Candidate are two very different things.
quote:
Even when Bucky was shown to have murdered the Starks, wouldn't you voluntarily give yourself up out of pure disgust? But what's worse is the Captain fighting for him. This plot line was a joke on its face, it has been, since Bucky's murder tally in the Winter Soldier.
Cap already knew. He says so. He is fighting for the good left in Bucky. Cap's biggest character point is he won't give up on friends or what he believes is right.
quote:
and that literally everyone wanted to be a comedian. Even serial killer Bucky.
That was "actual" Bucky. Not Manchurian candidate Bucky. If you remember from the first Cap movie, Bucky was light hearted.
quote:
You would think a superhero prison would be guarded by 'supers'. Nope. Cap walks in and frees everyone. Rosey endings for everyone! War Machine really isn't paralyzed! Tony quickly got over his parent's deaths! Even the villain/non-villain, whom I refuse to call Baron Zemo, doesn't get to kill himself. Live with the shame! (I guess?)
This I agree with. The non-ending wasn't good.
quote:
I chose to do a separate thread on this as overwhelmingly the opinion is that this movie was the best one ever. I don't think so.
It was the best marvel movie that doesn't start with the word "Guardians" IMO.
I haven't down voted you FWIW
Posted on 5/10/16 at 8:11 am to EthanL
quote:
Let's say you knew someone, and I hate to take a serious tone here, who went to war, developed PTSD, and started killing people. Is he now unaccountable for his actions?
That's not what happened to Bucky, though. He was captured and brainwashed. So he's not responsible for his actions.
Posted on 5/10/16 at 8:12 am to EthanL
I agree that Caps never ending defense of Bucky seemed dumb.
But everything else in your post was pure crap.
But everything else in your post was pure crap.
Posted on 5/10/16 at 8:14 am to EthanL
quote:
And is it the new norm that NO ONE has a secret identity?? Everyone leads a public life except for a kid, Spider-man. Sigh
It's been the established norm in this film universe since Tony Stark stood on a podium in the very first MCU movie and told the world that he is Iron Man. It's a weird thing to complain about since it's been that way forever.
Posted on 5/10/16 at 8:16 am to EthanL
No offense but...
"Look at me! I'm different!"
Nice troll attempt. Why not just put this in the real thread? I mean, it's clear you WANT the attention and the downvotes. Even if you honestly dislike the film, you're just trying to rile people up. There's absolutely no reason for a negative review for a negative review to need its own thread because other people enjoy the movie unless you want people's attention.
quote:
I chose to do a separate thread on this as overwhelmingly the opinion is that this movie was the best one ever. I don't think so. It won't have the numbers people will think it should have.
"Look at me! I'm different!"
quote:
SPOLIER: This is not a popular opinion and I will probably be ridiculed for my opinion, but here goes.
quote:
Let the down votes cascade!
Nice troll attempt. Why not just put this in the real thread? I mean, it's clear you WANT the attention and the downvotes. Even if you honestly dislike the film, you're just trying to rile people up. There's absolutely no reason for a negative review for a negative review to need its own thread because other people enjoy the movie unless you want people's attention.
This post was edited on 5/10/16 at 8:21 am
Posted on 5/10/16 at 8:16 am to EthanL
quote:
This movie had a hard time deciding if it would be a sequel to Winter Soildier or a sequel to AoU.
You do realize this movie is basically Captain America vs Ironman right?
Winter Soldier is about Cap's best friend and Age of Ultron is about Ironman's mistake. Obviously if this movie is Cap vs Iron then you can't just ignore one.
I also liked Batman v Superman.
Posted on 5/10/16 at 8:17 am to ProjectP2294
quote:
It's been the established norm in this film universe since Tony Stark stood on a podium in the very first MCU movie and told the world that he is Iron Man. It's a weird thing to complain about since it's been that way forever.
Not to mention it's a million times more realistic than no one figuring out Clark Kent is Superman.
Posted on 5/10/16 at 8:18 am to LNCHBOX
Saw it this weekend. I love these type of movies, but wasn't blown away. For what it is, it was very good. You can nitpick any movie to death if you really want to.
Solid 7/10.
Solid 7/10.
Posted on 5/10/16 at 8:19 am to EthanL
Sorry.
I liked BvS, but CW did pretty much the same thing so much better. Hell, even the villain's motivations (which, again, are seeking essentially the same outcome as Luthor's) make more sense in CW.
It is a better, well crafted, more entertaining movie. Period.
NOW...had there been a few more movies that developed the BvS characters AS THEY WERE IN THAT MOVIE as a "set up" as was the case in CW, opinions about the movie might be different and more positive.
People might be willing to accept killer Batman if the Robin storyline had been fleshed out, as well as filling in the gaps over the last 10-15 years. Diana/WW's "mystique" and role might not have been viewed as "forced" (despite the widespread praise for Gadot's work in the movie). Had there been an MOS2, there could have been more flesh on Supe's/Clark's bones to explain his attitude in this movie.
Notwithstanding people's problems with Snyder's style and darkness, BvS was rushed because the MCU was kicking DC's dick in the dirt. If Suicide Squad, WW and the free standing Batman are of quality (since they are NOT Snyder versions), they might actually serve to give some context to BvS and people will appreciate it more in the future. But that is a dumb fricking way to roll out a cohesive universe.
I liked BvS, but CW did pretty much the same thing so much better. Hell, even the villain's motivations (which, again, are seeking essentially the same outcome as Luthor's) make more sense in CW.
It is a better, well crafted, more entertaining movie. Period.
NOW...had there been a few more movies that developed the BvS characters AS THEY WERE IN THAT MOVIE as a "set up" as was the case in CW, opinions about the movie might be different and more positive.
People might be willing to accept killer Batman if the Robin storyline had been fleshed out, as well as filling in the gaps over the last 10-15 years. Diana/WW's "mystique" and role might not have been viewed as "forced" (despite the widespread praise for Gadot's work in the movie). Had there been an MOS2, there could have been more flesh on Supe's/Clark's bones to explain his attitude in this movie.
Notwithstanding people's problems with Snyder's style and darkness, BvS was rushed because the MCU was kicking DC's dick in the dirt. If Suicide Squad, WW and the free standing Batman are of quality (since they are NOT Snyder versions), they might actually serve to give some context to BvS and people will appreciate it more in the future. But that is a dumb fricking way to roll out a cohesive universe.
This post was edited on 5/10/16 at 8:24 am
Posted on 5/10/16 at 8:42 am to EthanL
Civil War is meh and BvS is bad. I don't really understand Stark's position whatsoever in this argument between him and Cap. You saved the entire world and some casualties happened. Having a bureaucracy decide when to use the Avengers is stupid.
Spoilers below
The biggest problem with these movies is that there are no stakes whatsoever. At no point do you think any of the characters will die. It was even obvious that Don Cheadle would be fine. Nobody dies and everyone is friends at the end. These movies are so predictable. Marvel needs to actually do something different for once and at stakes to the story
Spoilers below
The biggest problem with these movies is that there are no stakes whatsoever. At no point do you think any of the characters will die. It was even obvious that Don Cheadle would be fine. Nobody dies and everyone is friends at the end. These movies are so predictable. Marvel needs to actually do something different for once and at stakes to the story
Posted on 5/10/16 at 8:46 am to FranMully
quote:
I don't really understand Stark's position whatsoever in this argument between him and Cap.
Tony Stark had no oversight and unleashed Ultron upon the world who almost caused the Apocalypse. You really don't understand his point? I actually do side more with his point than Captain America's (or at least his team, since I understand that Cap was trying to save Bucky more than anything).
Posted on 5/10/16 at 8:47 am to ProjectP2294
quote:
It's been the established norm in this film universe since Tony Stark stood on a podium in the very first MCU movie and told the world that he is Iron Man. It's a weird thing to complain about since it's been that way forever.
it's sort of been the established norm in the Marvel Universe in general. People in the comics know Captain America is Steve Rogers, Iron Man is Tony Stark, Ant-Man is Hank Pym, etc. Very few heroes other than Spider-Man have secret identities in the Marvel Universe.
quote:
The biggest problem with these movies is that there are no stakes whatsoever. At no point do you think any of the characters will die. It was even obvious that Don Cheadle would be fine. Nobody dies and everyone is friends at the end. These movies are so predictable. Marvel needs to actually do something different for once and at stakes to the story
This may be spoilers so i'll give space....
Sebastian Stan who plays Bucky signed a 12 picture deal with Marvel. He's only been in 3 thus far. In the comics, Steve Rogers dies and Bucky becomes Cap. Falcon eventually takes over for Rogers for awhile too.
This post was edited on 5/10/16 at 8:49 am
Posted on 5/10/16 at 8:49 am to EthanL
quote:
So let me get this straight: Is Bucky just some mindless, drooling, serial killer that Captain swears to protect because it is 'not him'? Let's say you knew someone, and I hate to take a serious tone here, who went to war, developed PTSD, and started killing people. Is he now unaccountable for his actions? I mean wtf? Even when Bucky was shown to have murdered the Starks, wouldn't you voluntarily give yourself up out of pure disgust? But what's worse is the Captain fighting for him. This plot line was a joke on its face, it has been, since Bucky's murder tally in the Winter Soldier.
I agree with you on this. It's a bit ridiculous how much he protects him. And even if you agree with him, why would any of the other Avengers stand up for him?
quote:
Sigh 2.0: I will end on this note: I like BvS, so that means something is wrong with me, and I guess, 29% critics/movie goers? Sorry, but I preferred the real consequences of what superhero intervention
BvS was a mess, but I have no problem if anyone liked it. Heck, I have a ton of friends that really enjoyed it.
quote:
This movie in the MCU pantheon can easily be forgotten as the universe moves forward.
This is my main problem with most of the MCU. Aside from Cap 2 and the first Iron Man, they've all been pretty forgettable for me.
This post was edited on 5/10/16 at 8:57 am
Posted on 5/10/16 at 8:49 am to EthanL
quote:
So let me get this straight: Is Bucky just some mindless, drooling, serial killer that Captain swears to protect because it is 'not him'? Let's say you knew someone, and I hate to take a serious tone here, who went to war, developed PTSD, and started killing people. Is he now unaccountable for his actions? I mean wtf? Even when Bucky was shown to have murdered the Starks, wouldn't you voluntarily give yourself up out of pure disgust? But what's worse is the Captain fighting for him. This plot line was a joke on its face, it has been, since Bucky's murder tally in the Winter Soldier.
No. Just... no.
Your example fails in that the soldier with PTSD is still somewhat in control of what they are doing. They have an awareness, it's just skewed.
Prosecuting Bucky for what he did while under control of the Soviets is much more akin to wanting to prosecute a pistol. While Bucky remembered what he did, the Soviets were in total control of his mind (which was why he was freaking out soooooo badly when Zemo started reading off the control words). It was literally that he was a passenger in his own body and someone else was driving.
Another aspect of this that you failed to mention is that instead of just apprehending him, the very first order given was to kill Bucky on sight. Had the order been to bring him in alive, Cap probably would have been the first to offer to help them.
This post was edited on 5/10/16 at 8:55 am
Posted on 5/10/16 at 8:54 am to OMLandshark
quote:
I don't really understand Stark's position whatsoever in this argument between him and Cap.quote:
Tony Stark had no oversight and unleashed Ultron upon the world who almost caused the Apocalypse.
This. Stark also felt guilty about the destruction caused in Africa when he fought the Hulk. While Stark may be glib and fast-mouthed, he uses that as a shield to hide how much the world really effects him. In every movie thus far he has battled some level of regret whether it was his weapons being used in foreign wars or the damage done in his wake.
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