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Started By
Message
Guys, the reason Marvel is failing...it's too dense
Posted on 12/27/23 at 7:58 am
Posted on 12/27/23 at 7:58 am
Is This the Endgame for the Age of Heroes?
quote:
That’s a lot to take in, which is why the first few minutes of “The Marvels” is just a series of flashbacks designed to catch the audience up before the action even begins. Even for dedicated fans of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, the amount of prerequisite knowledge required to watch any M.C.U. movie or show nowadays is tantamount to a college course.
And it seems like audiences are tiring of the constant homework assignments. A year of diminishing box office returns is more proof that the casual superhero moviegoer is becoming more and more of a rarity given how much is being asked of them, which is full, multiplatform investment.
These franchises are spelling their own downfalls, as the price of entry into the fandoms has become frustratingly high for the dedicated disciples of these worlds, and not at all worth it for casual viewers or prospective new fans. This year has been a prime of example of what happens when a pop-culture movement takes hold of an industry and then overreaches. We’re witnessing Ragnarok.
quote:
Superhero movies used to be super. The heroes are still as strong as before. They just need the movies to match.
quote:
And though “The Marvels” was set up to be the big superhero blockbuster of the fall, it was a rote example of the form — unimaginative, unremarkable and purely targeted to audiences already in the know. It has performed miserably since its November release, with Disney president Bob Iger (who oversees Marvel Studios) taking the rare step of publicly admitting the movie’s shortcomings. It’s the worst-performing M.C.U. film so far, and a perfect representation of the exhaustion on both the creative side and audience side.
16
Posted on 12/27/23 at 8:02 am to SlowFlowPro
This isn't complicated.
Marvel told a whole massive story with the Infinity Gauntlet. They ended it, well, with Infinity War. They undid all of that with Endgame.
Now, there's no more story to tell. No plot to advance.
Let it die. It was a great run- the greatest in movie history, as far as successes and interest. But it's over.
Marvel told a whole massive story with the Infinity Gauntlet. They ended it, well, with Infinity War. They undid all of that with Endgame.
Now, there's no more story to tell. No plot to advance.
Let it die. It was a great run- the greatest in movie history, as far as successes and interest. But it's over.
Posted on 12/27/23 at 8:25 am to SlowFlowPro
I actually somewhat agree with the take in the OP.
Obviously there are other significant issues, but the amount of integration is now insane.
You have to watch 7 Disney+ shows to get a seemingly unrelated movie to even make sense.
Outside of Avengers, most of the Phase 1 and 2 movies were relatively stand alone and unrelated to any other property.
Now they are so intertwined its too much
Obviously there are other significant issues, but the amount of integration is now insane.
You have to watch 7 Disney+ shows to get a seemingly unrelated movie to even make sense.
Outside of Avengers, most of the Phase 1 and 2 movies were relatively stand alone and unrelated to any other property.
Now they are so intertwined its too much
Posted on 12/27/23 at 8:26 am to SlowFlowPro
The only downside to telling a great story across multiple films is that when the finale happens, the story/franchise is basically dead. Trying to fit in anything else, prequel or sequel, will almost always feel like filler BS that was pushed out for money. It’s happened loads of times too - Star Wars sequels, Marvel Phase 4, the Fantastic Beasts movies, Oceans 8, the last few Terminator movies, etc.
Posted on 12/27/23 at 8:29 am to SlowFlowPro
No mention of all the stupid female heroes that nobody gives a shite about?
Fans would have watched all those disney+ shows if they werent a bunch of woke garbage. They knew Capt Marvel was terrible. She Hulk was cringey bullshite. They tried to make falcon into captain america. It was just a bad plan all around.
Fans would have watched all those disney+ shows if they werent a bunch of woke garbage. They knew Capt Marvel was terrible. She Hulk was cringey bullshite. They tried to make falcon into captain america. It was just a bad plan all around.
Posted on 12/27/23 at 8:29 am to RebelTheBear
Go back to telling good, entertaining stand alone films that only come together on things like Avengers (or when it makes sense like in Civil War).
Slowly reintegrate them, make the Disney+ stuff its own bullshite
Slowly reintegrate them, make the Disney+ stuff its own bullshite
Posted on 12/27/23 at 8:54 am to RoyalAir
Marvel died when Disney took over. They are trying to make their money back by putting out infinite movies. No matter if they are bad or good.
Doing the same thing with Star Wars.
It's just too much. Oversaturation of the product.
Doing the same thing with Star Wars.
It's just too much. Oversaturation of the product.
Posted on 12/27/23 at 8:59 am to SECSolomonGrundy
quote:
No mention of all the stupid female heroes that nobody gives a shite about?
Doesn't matter if they are female and never heard of them.
I had never heard of Jessica Jones but I enjoyed that series. Now this was on Netflix, before Disney bought it, and it was edgy and gritty.
It just has to be good. Disney glosses over things to much and won't let movies or series breathe.
Posted on 12/27/23 at 9:05 am to RebelTheBear
quote:
The only downside to telling a great story across multiple films is that when the finale happens, the story/franchise is basically dead. Trying to fit in anything else, prequel or sequel, will almost always feel like filler BS that was pushed out for money. It’s happened loads of times too - Star Wars sequels, Marvel Phase 4, the Fantastic Beasts movies, Oceans 8, the last few Terminator movies, etc.
Yep, I still care about the individual marvel movies, like gotg and loki and such. Just don't care for the overall story arch.
Also Kang just got the axe
Posted on 12/27/23 at 9:10 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The heroes are still as strong as before.
the media knows this is not only untrue but the lack of strong heroes is actually one of the most compelling reasons for why Marvel is failing, yet they just cant bring themselves to say it out loud. they must continue to beat the ideological drum while coming up with all kinds of gibberish to explain it away.
Posted on 12/27/23 at 9:11 am to SlowFlowPro
MCU has several issues right now:
1) Forced woke & feminist push (Falcon & Winter Soldier portraying villain chick as mis-understood, Falcon's speech to politicians. The haircuts for Cpt Marvel and Wasp. She-Hulk, all of it. Hulk being neutered. Ant-Man Quantumania Among others)
2) Lazy writing, combined with a bunch of different directors on the individual movies. (Thor's character was completely cartooned. Eternals was horrible.)
3) Oversaturation. But this is loaded, I don't think it would be oversaturation if they hadn't put out shite content and time on characters that fans were not asking for. (Eternals & She-Hulk both horrible. Nobody is clamoring for more Monica Rambeau, Ms Marvel, Agatha season, Echo)
4) Great decade long 20+ movie story arc from Iron Man 1 to End Game, obviously there will be drop off after that build-up. They should have looked at End Game as the end of "Season 1" and started anew in "Season 2". (Shang-Chi was a good start, Hawkeye was a decent passing of the torch and Daredevil has potential, Loki is good and opens up more timeline possibilities and opens MCU up to recast Kang but still keep that storyline going)
1) Forced woke & feminist push (Falcon & Winter Soldier portraying villain chick as mis-understood, Falcon's speech to politicians. The haircuts for Cpt Marvel and Wasp. She-Hulk, all of it. Hulk being neutered. Ant-Man Quantumania Among others)
2) Lazy writing, combined with a bunch of different directors on the individual movies. (Thor's character was completely cartooned. Eternals was horrible.)
3) Oversaturation. But this is loaded, I don't think it would be oversaturation if they hadn't put out shite content and time on characters that fans were not asking for. (Eternals & She-Hulk both horrible. Nobody is clamoring for more Monica Rambeau, Ms Marvel, Agatha season, Echo)
4) Great decade long 20+ movie story arc from Iron Man 1 to End Game, obviously there will be drop off after that build-up. They should have looked at End Game as the end of "Season 1" and started anew in "Season 2". (Shang-Chi was a good start, Hawkeye was a decent passing of the torch and Daredevil has potential, Loki is good and opens up more timeline possibilities and opens MCU up to recast Kang but still keep that storyline going)
This post was edited on 12/27/23 at 9:12 am
Posted on 12/27/23 at 9:17 am to SECSolomonGrundy
The Marvels: A Complete Catastrophe
5 1/2 hour long dissertation on how utterly ridiculous and cringe is The Marvels movie.
By The Little Platoon.
5 1/2 hour long dissertation on how utterly ridiculous and cringe is The Marvels movie.
By The Little Platoon.
Posted on 12/27/23 at 9:19 am to SECSolomonGrundy
quote:
Fans would have watched all those disney+ shows if they werent a bunch of woke garbage
So you’ll watch garbage, just not woke garbage?
Posted on 12/27/23 at 9:23 am to RoyalAir
quote:
This isn't complicated.
Bad stories.
"Woke" doesn't mean it has to be a bad story.
"All Women" doesn't mean it has to be a bad story.
"New Characters" doesn't mean it has to be a bad story.
The first Wonder Woman movie was woke as frick with women in power and it was a good movie.
Favreau, Johnston, and Branagh introduced Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor to the general public. People didn't give a shite that they weren't Spider-Man and Hulk. The stories and direction were great. shite, Gunn changed almost everything about the then unknown Guardians, and people flocked to it because it was well written and directed.
Just quit trying to rely on "It's Marvel! And we have new characters for the modern, socially forward world!" Just give us good stories in well directed films and we'll show up.
This post was edited on 12/27/23 at 9:38 am
Posted on 12/27/23 at 9:25 am to kciDAtaE
quote:
So you’ll watch garbage, just not woke garbage?
I think the fact that it is woke AND garbage is the key issue. most of us conservatives have put up with left wing politics being shoehorned into our movies and entertainment for our whole lives, but NOT at the expense of storytelling and acting for the most part. Platoon, for example, is a leftwing anti-war anti-military circle jerk that also happens to be one of my favorite movies of all time. a political story can still be compelling even if you disagree with it if it's INTERESTING. but when the stories arent interesting and the characters arent likeable, then what's the point?
This post was edited on 12/27/23 at 9:27 am
Posted on 12/27/23 at 9:42 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Go back to telling good, entertaining stand alone films that only come together on things like Avengers (or when it makes sense like in Civil War).
Slowly reintegrate them, make the Disney+ stuff its own bullshite
Killing off the Marvel TV division was a mistake. Everything doesn't need to be prestige TV or a cinematic universe. I'd put Season 1 of Jessica Jones up against anything else Marvel has put out because the villains drive these stories as much or more than the heroes. The heroes almost don't matter if you have a good story and villain.
XMen wouldn't be nearly as popular if it were simply mutants vs. a fascist government. Magneto and his "bad guys" are what makes XMen interesting.
That's what's wrong with Marvel. They are focusing on who the heroes are, with the purpose of signalling certain virtues, rather than focusing on what the story is and who is creating the conflict.
Posted on 12/27/23 at 9:53 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
And it seems like audiences are tiring of the constant homework assignments
Posted on 12/27/23 at 9:53 am to SlowFlowPro
Boys like comic book characters, girls dont. Make all your movies appeal to girls and you are gonna struggle
Posted on 12/27/23 at 9:54 am to kciDAtaE
quote:
So you’ll watch garbage, just not woke garbage?
Woke is what makes it garbage lol they’re so worried about checking boxes they forget to make an actual good movie.
Posted on 12/27/23 at 9:54 am to Doug_H
quote:
The haircuts for Cpt Marvel and Wasp. She-Hulk, all of it.
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