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Revisiting an old argument: The designated hitter
Posted on 5/23/10 at 1:18 pm
Posted on 5/23/10 at 1:18 pm
I don't mind either really, but I hate when people tell me that a pitcher batting is "real baseball."
This isn't high school where pitchers typically play every game. Pitchers are coddled and you can see that by how many don't run hard during their at-bats. Not being every day players hurts their play during every fifth game as a runner/hitter.
Anyway, I like the game where it's at, having the DH in the AL, and none in the NL. It's a unique quality that other sports don't have. (And so are ballpark dimensions)
This isn't high school where pitchers typically play every game. Pitchers are coddled and you can see that by how many don't run hard during their at-bats. Not being every day players hurts their play during every fifth game as a runner/hitter.
Anyway, I like the game where it's at, having the DH in the AL, and none in the NL. It's a unique quality that other sports don't have. (And so are ballpark dimensions)
6
Posted on 5/23/10 at 1:36 pm to ohiosportfan777
My problem with the DH, and most people's problems who don't like it, is that it changes the way the game is managed. There are no double switches in the AL, and pinch hitting has become a lost art for the most part. The manager just sits there and changes a pitcher if he has to and doesn't have to worry about the ramifications to his lineup.
As for the AL vs NL, my biggest problem is that the World Series is supposed to be baseball's showcase event, and the rules are changed halfway through the series, not once, but twice.
I'd rather just get rid of the DH, but more importantly, I think baseball needs to be unified in this rule, especially since interleague play has become a really big part of the schedule.
As for the AL vs NL, my biggest problem is that the World Series is supposed to be baseball's showcase event, and the rules are changed halfway through the series, not once, but twice.
I'd rather just get rid of the DH, but more importantly, I think baseball needs to be unified in this rule, especially since interleague play has become a really big part of the schedule.
Posted on 5/23/10 at 1:40 pm to ohiosportfan777
quote:
Pitchers are coddled
The BIGGEST problem with Baseball. 5 innings my arse. Nowadays THAT is a quality start????????? bullshite!!!!
quote:
but I hate when people tell me that a pitcher batting is "real baseball."
Back in the day it was.
Posted on 5/23/10 at 1:45 pm to medtiger
God forbid the NL ever adopt the DH. Outside of Medtiger's priority of uniformity, I agree with everything he said about the DH cheapening the strategy of the game. Managers matter more in the NL, and the game doesn't have an artificial arcade feel that I get too often from AL games.
Posted on 5/23/10 at 2:57 pm to ohiosportfan777
:beatdeadhorse:
Posted on 5/23/10 at 3:30 pm to KBeezy
The thing about the DH that I hate the most is that AL pitchers don't have to suffer the consequences of throwing at opposing batters. Run one up on a guy and your teammate pays the price. That's bullshite. Roger Clemens was the king of this.
Posted on 5/23/10 at 3:34 pm to dukke v
quote:
5 innings my arse. Nowadays THAT is a quality start????????? bullshite!!!!
I get your point, but 6 innings and 3 or less earned runs is a quality start.
Posted on 5/23/10 at 4:09 pm to medtiger
Don't stoop to using facts.
Posted on 5/23/10 at 4:15 pm to medtiger
quote:
but 6 innings and 3 or less earned runs is a quality start.
But why take the guy out!! Let him finish. LIKE I SAID PUSSIFIED!!!!!!!!!!
Posted on 5/23/10 at 4:26 pm to dukke v
It's not pussified. The game has changed since the 40s and 50s. Now, some pitchers are paid big $$$$ to get people out in the 7th, 8th, and 9th innings. Instead of having a bullpen just in case your starter sucks that day, there are specialists who are expected to pitch day in and day out. How many guys have their careers ruined because they pitch too much too early? This still happened back in your day too, you just didn't hear about it back then.
Posted on 5/23/10 at 4:31 pm to medtiger
quote:
The game has changed since the 40s and 50s
This is true. But you have pitchers Like Ryan and Glavine and smoltz and Maddox, and Holaday, that can go the distance. Bottom line is that Starting pitching is sparce compared o what it used to be.WHY DID THE GAME CHANGE?????? MONEY and PRESSURE to WIN RIGHT NOW WITH FREE Anency!!!!
Posted on 5/23/10 at 4:34 pm to medtiger
A five year old can figure out the double switch. It's not some high strategy. I have no patience for people extolling its virtues.
And given pitcher speacialization these days, no one has a long bench anymore.
And given pitcher speacialization these days, no one has a long bench anymore.
Posted on 5/23/10 at 4:44 pm to Baloo
quote:
A five year old can figure out the double switch.
I knew some AL guy would bring this up. Sure, the double switch may not take an intellectual giant to figure out, but it takes a lot more thought than just pulling a pitcher when he's clearly had enough.
Team A down by 1 in the 7th. Their pitcher still has some left in him and has pitched a great game. Do you put in a pinch hitter or do you let him finish the game? Your catcher has caught 4 games in a row. He's one of your best hitters. When do you sit him?
Clearly these often times have simple answers, but it's still a hell of a lot more mental stimulation than just putting that catcher at the DH or keeping your pitcher in because he won't waste an at bat.
Posted on 5/23/10 at 4:46 pm to Dale Murphy
quote:
Dale Murphy
YOU need to be in the HALL OF FAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted on 5/23/10 at 8:20 pm to ohiosportfan777
Let's discuss another aspect. Nothing more exciting than putting together a rally with the bottom of the lineup then watching the pitcher come up and strike out on 3 straight pitches. Or better yet, watching your ace pull up with a pulled hamstring and miss 2 months during a pennant race. 
Posted on 5/23/10 at 10:46 pm to BayouBuster
I see both sides. It's an issue I haven't really formed a solid position on but I've thought about a lot for some reason. (Sorry for the long post) On one hand, the NL style has a lot of positives, some of which have been mentioned:
-Pitchers actually have to stand in the batters' box and aren't free to just throw at the other team's hitters w/o fear of retribution on themselves, thus leaving their teammates to take the hits;
-NL baseball makes depth more important and pinch hitting and management strategy become relevant--yes, Baloo the actual function of the double switch is simple but the strategy, matchups and decision-making aspect of who to bat, who to switch out for defense, what spot in the order, who to save, etc. involves complicated analysis/strategy, not just the simple function of actually knowing where to write the names on the lineup card as you describe it. Using pitchers to bunt and how to pitch to other hitters in the lineup knowing when the pitcher's spot is due also adds to the strategic intricacies of the NL game that are absent from the AL.
-NL baseball forces all players to play the game. None of these bloated aging veterans playing X-Box in the clubhouse and stepping up to the plate 4 times a night to pad there stats.
I also understand the AL argument that it's more entertaining to have 9 hitters in a lineup who are actually viable players in the batters' box and not a pitcher just trying to not get himself killed. We get to see more offense, more runs, etc. which puts asses in the seats and eyeballs on the TVs. It's more fun for a lot of people to watch rallies uninterrupted by pitchers sucking the life out of them.
It's not so bad the way it is w/ the two leagues except one glaring problem--The World Series. It's unfair to NL teams when they play in the AL parks. The AL team's DH is some star hitter like David Ortiz or Jim Thome. Meanwhile the NL's DH is usually some bench guy who isn't good enough to play every day. That's a serious advantage to the AL. So, while I think I prefer the NL game on most days, the rules should probably stay the way they are except in the World Series where the DH should be banned.
-Pitchers actually have to stand in the batters' box and aren't free to just throw at the other team's hitters w/o fear of retribution on themselves, thus leaving their teammates to take the hits;
-NL baseball makes depth more important and pinch hitting and management strategy become relevant--yes, Baloo the actual function of the double switch is simple but the strategy, matchups and decision-making aspect of who to bat, who to switch out for defense, what spot in the order, who to save, etc. involves complicated analysis/strategy, not just the simple function of actually knowing where to write the names on the lineup card as you describe it. Using pitchers to bunt and how to pitch to other hitters in the lineup knowing when the pitcher's spot is due also adds to the strategic intricacies of the NL game that are absent from the AL.
-NL baseball forces all players to play the game. None of these bloated aging veterans playing X-Box in the clubhouse and stepping up to the plate 4 times a night to pad there stats.
I also understand the AL argument that it's more entertaining to have 9 hitters in a lineup who are actually viable players in the batters' box and not a pitcher just trying to not get himself killed. We get to see more offense, more runs, etc. which puts asses in the seats and eyeballs on the TVs. It's more fun for a lot of people to watch rallies uninterrupted by pitchers sucking the life out of them.
It's not so bad the way it is w/ the two leagues except one glaring problem--The World Series. It's unfair to NL teams when they play in the AL parks. The AL team's DH is some star hitter like David Ortiz or Jim Thome. Meanwhile the NL's DH is usually some bench guy who isn't good enough to play every day. That's a serious advantage to the AL. So, while I think I prefer the NL game on most days, the rules should probably stay the way they are except in the World Series where the DH should be banned.
Posted on 5/23/10 at 10:55 pm to BayouBuster
quote:
Nothing more exciting than putting together a rally with the bottom of the lineup then watching the pitcher come up and strike out on 3 straight pitches.
Here you have more strategy to implore. If it is a rally, then I assume you are behind. If you are even considering leaving in your pitcher, it must mean he has settled down since giving up the lead and is pitching well.
This makes it much more interesting. Do you get the pinch hitter up and turn the game over to your bullpen with a chance at tying or taking the lead right now with your pinch hitter
or do you stick with your starter who has settled down and is now looking hard to hit and can keep you in it for the next couple of innings
Obviously the number of outs in the inning when the pitchers spot comes up is a huge determining factor here as well
Posted on 5/23/10 at 11:04 pm to Jamohn
quote:
It's not so bad the way it is w/ the two leagues except one glaring problem--The World Series. It's unfair to NL teams when they play in the AL parks. The AL team's DH is some star hitter like David Ortiz or Jim Thome. Meanwhile the NL's DH is usually some bench guy who isn't good enough to play every day. That's a serious advantage to the AL. So, while I think I prefer the NL game on most days, the rules should probably stay the way they are except in the World Series where the DH should be banned.
This is the point I made above; however, I don't think the solution is just banning the DH in the World Series. Then, you're telling the AL team that one of their best hitters that has more than likely played a pivotal role in getting them to the World Series can't play. Also, you're telling pitchers who haven't batted all year long that they have to bat when a championship is on the line.
If MLB is going to have 2 leagues with different rules, I think the only fair way to play the World Series is the way they play it now. I think it's ridiculous that they change the rules the way they do in baseball's showcase event, but it's the only fair way right now. The answer is to make the leagues uniform. Either have the DH in both leagues or in neither. I'd prefer neither, but adding it to the NL would be better than the current situation.
Posted on 5/24/10 at 12:49 am to ohiosportfan777
As much as I like the DH, the real problem today is interleague. There is no way, other than each of the teams playing every single N.L. team that you can make this remotely fair. It wouldn't bother me if the wild cards weren't up for grabs.
Posted on 5/24/10 at 12:56 am to ohiosportfan777
It adds many unfair advantages to AL teams, also. The biggest one is that AL teams can go after an aging hitter like a Jim Thome whose one job is to hit four times a game or getting an aging pitcher who doesn't want to hit. Also, there are plenty of small advantages AL teams get too like having extra ticket sales because their brand of baseball is more exciting to most, giving them more cash to go after a big free agent. The only thing I would change is banning the DH all together in interleague play.
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