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re: If SOS played a huge part in Ohio State jumping TCU...
Posted on 12/8/14 at 12:10 pm to lsupride87
Posted on 12/8/14 at 12:10 pm to lsupride87
quote:No formula is subjective, and every one of them is consistent. Which components to use, and how much weight each component has relative to the others, however, is 100% subjective.
Ok. We have established SOS is subjective as shite and not consistent at all. Perfect
That's why I provide the numbers, say they're there for perspective, and let people like you interpret them anyway you want. You want to ignore some of them, though, and that's why you have a hollow argument.
1
Posted on 12/8/14 at 12:11 pm to ballscaster
quote:I dont ignore what you post. I just think it is a god awful way to compare teams. Like really god awful
You want to ignore some of them, though, and that's why you have a hollow argument.
Posted on 12/8/14 at 12:13 pm to lsupride87
quote:...and backed those statements up with comprehensive evidence. You have not given your arguments the same treatment.
No, in over 5 thread you make statements like, "the team with the better SOS is in".
Posted on 12/8/14 at 12:14 pm to ballscaster
quote:I have shown in fact Ohio st doesnt have the best SOS. If you dont think your statements were misleading there is no use arguing over it.
You have not given your arguments the same treatment.
Posted on 12/8/14 at 12:18 pm to lsupride87
quote:"Fact" is misused in your statement.
I have shown in fact Ohio st doesnt have the best SOS.
quote:Comprehensive evidence can deceive those who only use selective evidence.
If you dont think your statements were misleading there is no use arguing over it.
What actually happened on the field favors Ohio State. If you want to consider things like home/away/neutral, winning streak, days off between games, margin of victory, or any other thing of which you can think, be my guest, you can come up with any number of reasonable arguments. I'm not a fan of taking into consideration those things unless I'm trying to gamble, which, thank Christ, I've never done.
But you cannot debate the following, and you cannot deny that the following is that which comprises the general framework--a starting point, if you will--of any reasonable argument:
Ohio State's record is better
Ohio State's opponents have better records
Ohio State's opponents' opponents have better records
and so on
and so on
This information is where a logical argument begins. These are the game results. They always count. Throw whatever you wish on top of it, but you won't cover it up.
This post was edited on 12/8/14 at 12:25 pm
Posted on 12/8/14 at 12:21 pm to ballscaster
quote:No offense, but you seem like a real douche who would be really hard to enjoy a beer with. I disagree with alot of people on here, but usually it is just a good ole fashioned disagreement. Something comes off different with you. Like I said, no offense though
ballscaster
Posted on 12/8/14 at 12:25 pm to lsupride87
quote:
And I am ok with this. I still like Baylors resume, but I understand the decision. But if after looking at SOS, they then went to Opponents opponents winning %, then I think they should be fired
I see nothing wrong with incorporating the winning % of an opponents opponents, depending on the formulation. If an opponent's winning % is seen as he likelihood that some team could have won, then wouldn't you want that value to be adjusted based on the stength of the opponent's games too?
This post was edited on 12/8/14 at 12:27 pm
Posted on 12/8/14 at 12:27 pm to lsupride87
You've called me a liar about a hundred times.
Posted on 12/8/14 at 12:28 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:Once I see SOS rankings are similar, I want to move onto a drill down of actual quality games and actual football. If one teams sos it 5 and the other is 40, then end the discussion there. But if they are both in that 40-50 range, let's move on, not break it down further into opponents opponents winning %. Which like I said, if the deciding factor was the extra football game played, I understand
If an opponent's winning % is seen as he likelihood that some team could have won, then wouldn't you want that value to be adjusted based on their SOS?
Posted on 12/8/14 at 12:29 pm to ballscaster
quote:I think you intentionally mislead
You've called me a liar about a hundred times
Posted on 12/8/14 at 12:32 pm to lsupride87
quote:
Once I see SOS rankings are similar, I want to move onto a drill down of actual quality games and actual football. If one teams sos it 5 and the other is 40, then end the discussion there. But if they are both in that 40-50 range, let's move on, not break it down further into opponents opponents winning %. Which like I said, if the deciding factor was the extra football game played, I understand
I get what you are saying. I meant that if creating a formula for SOS it would make sense to have that incorporates. It wouldn't be much of an argumentative point as a value in and of itself.
Posted on 12/8/14 at 12:33 pm to lsupride87
quote:Your problem. You were uninformed coming into the debate and called me a liar before you did your fricking homework. So the person who doesn't know his shite and calls me a liar for doing my research says he doesn't want to have a beer with me, like I give a shite. We're talking about football and numbers, not butt-fricking.
I think you intentionally mislead
Posted on 12/8/14 at 12:36 pm to ballscaster
quote:I took you for your word when you said over 15 times "Ohio st has the better SOS". This morning, I decided to google SOS rankings, just to see how much Higher OSU was. Low and behold the first two links have TCU higher
Your problem. You were uninformed coming into the debate and called me a liar before you did your fricking homework. So the person who doesn't know his shite and calls me a liar for doing my research says he doesn't want to have a beer with me, like I give a shite. We're talking about football and numbers, not butt-fricking.
That made me call you a liar, yes. 
Posted on 12/8/14 at 12:38 pm to lsupride87
quote:Dumb.
I took you for your word
quote:Smart.
I decided to google SOS rankings
quote:Crazy girlfriend.
That made me call you a liar, yes.
Posted on 12/8/14 at 12:40 pm to ballscaster
quote:
No, those games were counted like the hundreds of others.
Yet you can't seem to understand how bad the OOC for the BIG Ten is, right?
Their best teams lost to Va Tech, a mediocre LSU team, destroyed by Oregon, beaten badly by TCU and so on. The BIG Ten is just not that good, yet people want to crap on the Big XII and SOS.
The conference is extremely overrated and had 1 legit OOC win by its worst team. Outside of that, nothing.
Posted on 12/8/14 at 12:43 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:It is the weakest of the P5 conferences, but that is not what is important. The focus needs to be on the individual teams in discussion. The SEC is strong, but Mizzous individual schedule is very weak for example
The conference is extremely overrated
Posted on 12/8/14 at 12:45 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:These four games are counted just like the hundreds of others.
Their best teams lost to Va Tech, a mediocre LSU team, destroyed by Oregon, beaten badly by TCU and so on. The BIG Ten is just not that good, yet people want to crap on the Big XII and SOS.
quote:But Ohio State isn't.
The conference is extremely overrated
Your argument comprises of less than 5% of what you need in order for it to hold any water. It's basically a First Take type of argument.
Posted on 12/8/14 at 12:47 pm to lsupride87
quote:Now we're talking.
It is the weakest of the P5 conferences, but that is not what is important. The focus needs to be on the individual teams in discussion.
And I'd argue against the Big Ten being the weakest. Colley agrees. LINK
This post was edited on 12/8/14 at 12:50 pm
Posted on 12/8/14 at 12:48 pm to lsupride87
quote:
It is the weakest of the P5 conferences, but that is not what is important. The focus needs to be on the individual teams in discussion. The SEC is strong, but Mizzous individual schedule is very weak for example
How so? The conference strength effects the quality of the majority of opponents faced by each team.
I think giving tOSU some boost for playing an extra game is horrible logic. Look at who the extra game was and tell me the difference.
TCU played 9 conference games as did tOSU. The fact that tOSU is given an edge for having 3 rent a wins versus' TCU's two is illogical.
The pure number is useless if you ignore context. TCU lost 1 game to a top 6 opponent on the road in their stronger conference. tOSU in a weaker conference won all their games but lost to a bad Va Tech team at home.
That is what should've been the initial comparison and is then why it should've eliminated tOSU from contention. Then it is between TCU and Baylor.
Yes Baylor had an atrocious OOC but they also played 9 conference games.
Posted on 12/8/14 at 12:50 pm to ballscaster
quote:
Your argument comprises of less than 5% of what you need in order for it to hold any water. It's basically a First Take type of argument.
So looking at the overall quality of the opponents faced in conference (for 75% of the games is less important) than looking at counting shitty teams they play OOC?
So to whom and where you lose your game shouldn't matter. So if tOSU lost to Indiana at home but still won the Big Ten the same way, you'd be fine with putting them in the playoffs over TCU who lost to a top 6 team on the road?
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