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How much should defense factor into the NBA MVP?
Posted on 3/31/17 at 12:56 pm
Posted on 3/31/17 at 12:56 pm
Saw this on an nba forum. I'm not sure if its already been discussed (probably has been) but figured this would no doubt get completely unbiased and non-homerific responses.
Some of the things players like Kawhi and Lebron do don't show up in the box score and therefore don't truly show how well rounded their games are. Meanwhile scorers get most of the attention because they are fascinating to watch. I'm not favoring anyone in particular because Harden (improved defense and ridiculous assist numbers), Westbrook (crazy stat sheet), LeBron, or Kawhi are all good enough to deserve it. Just wondering if a player that scores slightly less but is much better defensively should get any help in the minds of voters for being that good defensively.
IMO defense is way too underrated and should be considered more.
Thoughts?
Some of the things players like Kawhi and Lebron do don't show up in the box score and therefore don't truly show how well rounded their games are. Meanwhile scorers get most of the attention because they are fascinating to watch. I'm not favoring anyone in particular because Harden (improved defense and ridiculous assist numbers), Westbrook (crazy stat sheet), LeBron, or Kawhi are all good enough to deserve it. Just wondering if a player that scores slightly less but is much better defensively should get any help in the minds of voters for being that good defensively.
IMO defense is way too underrated and should be considered more.
Thoughts?
13
Posted on 3/31/17 at 12:57 pm to JetsetNuggs
I'm team Kawhi should win MVP. It probably should be an all around award.
Posted on 3/31/17 at 1:00 pm to JetsetNuggs
I don't know why people keep looping Lebron and Kawhi in together defensively. Kawhi is so much better at defense in the regular season than Lebron is.
Posted on 3/31/17 at 1:01 pm to JetsetNuggs
Should be more of a factor, but it's whatever. Criteria important to winning the award vacillates pretty regularly.
Posted on 3/31/17 at 1:02 pm to Dawgsontop34
I agree. Didn't mean to put them on the same level. I just meant that he's at least solid defensively and should get more credit than the heavy scorer type
ETA: Kawhi is the best defender in the league by a good margin
ETA: Kawhi is the best defender in the league by a good margin
This post was edited on 3/31/17 at 1:03 pm
Posted on 3/31/17 at 1:04 pm to JetsetNuggs
I don't think defense is underrated at all. People care very much about defense.
But offense and defense isn't a 50/50 proposition. If it was then Tony Allen would be a 10x all-star and could lead any team to the playoffs on his back.
But basketball doesn't work like that as defense is very team oriented.
So yes, it matters when deciding a close race, but it's not nearly as important in an individual discussion as offensive production unless that offensive player is just so god awful on defense to the point where it hurts the team and cuts into his offensive production.
But you have to figure it out for yourself as there is no standard way to judge how to weight those things.
But offense and defense isn't a 50/50 proposition. If it was then Tony Allen would be a 10x all-star and could lead any team to the playoffs on his back.
But basketball doesn't work like that as defense is very team oriented.
So yes, it matters when deciding a close race, but it's not nearly as important in an individual discussion as offensive production unless that offensive player is just so god awful on defense to the point where it hurts the team and cuts into his offensive production.
But you have to figure it out for yourself as there is no standard way to judge how to weight those things.
This post was edited on 3/31/17 at 1:06 pm
Posted on 3/31/17 at 1:04 pm to JetsetNuggs
Does the NBA even play real defense? Did it ever?
Nobody seems to care about D anymore...this isn't early 90's, there are no Jordan rules and the Knicks aren't walking through that door.
Nobody seems to care about D anymore...this isn't early 90's, there are no Jordan rules and the Knicks aren't walking through that door.
Posted on 3/31/17 at 1:07 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
Does the NBA even play real defense?
Yes.
Defenders are better now than in bygone eras. And it's not close.
quote:
Nobody seems to care about D anymore...this isn't early 90's
aka "Hackball"
Posted on 3/31/17 at 1:08 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:Yes, the NBA plays great defense.
Nobody seems to care about D anymore...this isn't early 90's, there are no Jordan rules and the Knicks aren't walking through that door.
How do I know?
1. If the NBA did not play great defense, then JJ Reddick and Adam Morrison would have lit them up like they did in college. But they couldn't.
2. USA Basketball wins international games against teams not because of their offense... but because of their defense. USA's defense is superior to the rest of the world.
Posted on 3/31/17 at 1:09 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
If it was then Tony Allen would be a 10x all-star and could lead any team to the playoffs on his back.
Thats part of my point though. When it comes to someone like Kawhi, we're talking about someone considerably better than even Tony allen at defense and night and day better offensively, only slightly less dominant offensively than guys like Harden and Westbrook. Kawhi's problem is that he's what some consider a boring old school type player
Posted on 3/31/17 at 1:10 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
2. USA Basketball wins international games against teams not because of their offense... but because of their defense. USA's defense is superior to the rest of the world.
Excellent point. And against better competition than the original Dream Team ever faced.
Posted on 3/31/17 at 1:11 pm to JetsetNuggs
quote:
he's what some consider a boring old school type player
Watch him live. Ain't nothing boring about his game.
Posted on 3/31/17 at 1:12 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
this isn't early 90's
quote:
there are no Jordan rules
I'm pretty sure the Jordan rules (or at least the effectiveness of them) were in the late 80s and probably wasn't quite as useful once Pippen began to be in his prime and the triangle offense was installed.
This post was edited on 3/31/17 at 1:14 pm
Posted on 3/31/17 at 1:13 pm to ShoeBang
I definitely don't consider him that. People that love players jacking up threes would though. Some fans love the 3 ball so much that anything less is boring
Posted on 3/31/17 at 1:14 pm to JetsetNuggs
A player that can do all on the court is important to have but not entirely necessary. So in the absence of being skilled defensively there often seems to be a designated player in each lineup who is more relied upon for defense than scoring. Shouldn't discredit MVP consideration if warranted if the player is not known for his defense though.
Posted on 3/31/17 at 1:14 pm to JetsetNuggs
quote:
Kawhi's problem is that he's what some consider a boring old school type player
Eh, that perception is more because of his even-keeled demeanor and the team he plays for, tbh.
If he were more demonstrative and/or on a traditional glam team, folks wouldn't consider him old school/boring, IMO.
Posted on 3/31/17 at 1:15 pm to JetsetNuggs
They'll be a year pretty soon where there's not quite the offensive juggernauts like Westbrook and Harden are this season, and the media will just decide that this is the year Leonard should win it and push him really hard.
It's a stupid award. Of course defense should factor in more than it does. Leonard is ridiculously good player
It's a stupid award. Of course defense should factor in more than it does. Leonard is ridiculously good player
Posted on 3/31/17 at 1:17 pm to JetsetNuggs
Every team averages way over 105 points per game.
In 1998 the league average was 90 points per game.
In 1998 the league average was 90 points per game.
Posted on 3/31/17 at 1:25 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
Eh, that perception is more because of his even-keeled demeanor and the team he plays for, tbh.
If he were more demonstrative and/or on a traditional glam team, folks wouldn't consider him old school/boring, IMO.
Dead on and you worded it better than I could apparently. My main point is that all around players like him get penalized for not being first in scoring, ranking like 4th instead, all because they spread their energy to all facets of the game. I guess I just appreciate pure basketball players more than players that can score 30 but give up 20 in the process. And again, while I do favor Kawhi for the award, I wouldn't be upset with any of the other 3 because they all deserve it.
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