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Message
Grantland: What's next for Kevin Love?
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:33 am
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:33 am
LINK /
TLDR:
Warriors refused to trade Klay Thompson for Kevin Love.
Warriors were closer to trading Draymond Green and Harrison Barnes for Love, but did not. Minnesota would have been laughed at for taking this deal last summer - but it doesn't look that laughable anymore.
The Cavs play significantly better defense without Kevin Love and is part of the reason they ran through the east and beat GS in Game 2.
Kevin Love's defensive liability has GM's across the league confused as to how valuable Love really is.
Love > Green on offense; but Green > Love on defense.
Should Cleveland max Tristian Thompson instead of keeping Kevin Love (also at a max deal)?
If Love leaves Cleveland, he will have suitors. If he opts in, should Cleveland trade him?
quote:
Well, maybe not everyone. The Cavs are also three wins from the title — without Love. They’ve discovered a gritty, anti-modern, defense-first style that demolished the East and came within inches of sweeping the Warriors at home, where Golden State is supposedly invincible. Their success has team executives across the league wondering if Love just isn’t as good as they thought, or whether Cleveland’s success without him is more about LeBron’s presence than Love’s absence. By not playing, Love has become the league’s most confusing and polarizing player.
quote:
Only, Kerr didn’t tell Green he had won the job. “I wanted him to stay motivated,” Kerr says. When Lee returned to practice a few weeks later, he strolled onto the floor with the starters, according to multiple Golden State coaches and players. Green appeared confused. Kerr signaled for Green to take his place, and everyone finally knew: The power forward spot was Green’s. Starting Barnes over Andre Iguodala was Kerr’s plan from the beginning. Starting Green was an accident — a lucky break.
quote:
Love is not a two-way player — at least not now. And even if his defense improves, he’ll never be quick enough to regularly switch onto wings during the pick-and-roll — a skill more coaches crave from big men as the league gets smaller and faster. Most perimeter players can switch among themselves without creating fatal mismatches, but that doesn’t do much good against a pick-and-roll involving a point guard and a big man. A power forward who can switch that play has unique value. He is the pivot point between a normal NBA defense and a switching machine that walls off the paint.
quote:
The deal made sense, given LeBron’s need to win right away and Wiggins’s unproven 3-point shooting — a necessary skill for any wing playing alongside LeBron. But LeBron is winning with this Love-less crew of misfits, and there exists a reality in which the Cavaliers could have kept Wiggins, gained cap flexibility, and snagged Thaddeus Young to serve as Love Lite by simply cutting Minnesota out of the three-way deal that ended up sending Love to Cleveland.5 The Cavs with Wiggins on the wing may never have felt the need to pluck Iman Shumpert and J.R. Smith from the Knicks, but they still could have managed it, and they still might have made the Finals — with a cleaner cap sheet.
quote:
Gilbert is right: The past is unchangeable. Some team will wager on Love rehabilitating his value, and that team will be happy it did — even if it’s Cleveland. This Finals run, to me, is more about LeBron’s singular talent than Love, Irving, offensive rebounding, or anything else. No other player in the league could drag this team where LeBron has dragged it. There may be only three or four guys in NBA history who could have done it.
quote:
Love isn’t as good as we thought he was, especially given how the power forward position is evolving. He probably isn’t a top-eight player. The skeptics were right in that regard.
But he’s still a top-15 or top-20 guy at worst — a true star. If Love opts out this summer, the Cavs could sign-and-trade him to any number of giddy suitors who know their odds of luring Kevin Durant a year from now are less than slim. If Love opts in for next season, he would draw a bonanza of interest in free agency a year from now.
TLDR:
Warriors refused to trade Klay Thompson for Kevin Love.
Warriors were closer to trading Draymond Green and Harrison Barnes for Love, but did not. Minnesota would have been laughed at for taking this deal last summer - but it doesn't look that laughable anymore.
The Cavs play significantly better defense without Kevin Love and is part of the reason they ran through the east and beat GS in Game 2.
Kevin Love's defensive liability has GM's across the league confused as to how valuable Love really is.
Love > Green on offense; but Green > Love on defense.
Should Cleveland max Tristian Thompson instead of keeping Kevin Love (also at a max deal)?
If Love leaves Cleveland, he will have suitors. If he opts in, should Cleveland trade him?
This post was edited on 6/9/15 at 11:36 am
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:37 am to Nonetheless
quote:
Should Cleveland max Tristian Thompson instead of keeping Kevin Love (also at a max deal)?
Yikes at this proposition. I'd lean towards TT, but idk if they are the same price.
TT is a beast on D and the boards, but his offensive game is non-existent. Love gives you favorable spacing on the offensive end and allows LBJ to play more of his game of being an elite distributor that you can also lean on to create his own. Take away a spacer like Love and LBJ is pretty much forced to play the way he has in this series, and I would say that this style is less than optimal for the Cavs and Lebron
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:37 am to Nonetheless
Around December it became clear the Cavs got fleeced.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:42 am to Dr. Shultz
I still think it is too early to tell if Cleveland got fleeced. Maybe Love comes back willing to accept a different role? Maybe Bron learns to play more cohesively with Love?
At the end of the day, Love was still averaging 17&10 and the Cavs went on their long winning streak with Bron, Kyrie and Love healthy.
At the end of the day, Love was still averaging 17&10 and the Cavs went on their long winning streak with Bron, Kyrie and Love healthy.
This post was edited on 6/9/15 at 11:43 am
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:46 am to Nonetheless
quote:I tried to say this all last season on the MSB. That being I still thought the trade to CLE was good on CLE's part, and I still think so now.
Love isn’t as good as we thought he was, especially given how the power forward position is evolving. He probably isn’t a top-eight player. The skeptics were right in that regard.
I do admit defeat on Love/Thompson, I thought GS was silly to not make that trade, but Thompson proved me wrong this season, he's legit and fits in well with what they're doing.
And I'd still take Love over TT even right now if that were possible.
Kinda sounds contradictory, but I think it makes sense.
This post was edited on 6/9/15 at 11:48 am
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:46 am to SabiDojo
quote:
What's next for Kevin Love?
Go back to some shitty non-contender and rack up stats again.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:48 am to Dr. Shultz
I just think we gave up too much for a player that basically got turned into a volume three point shooter that plays no defense.
I don't mean that as a knock on Kevin Love, just that we could of got the same production for much less.
I don't mean that as a knock on Kevin Love, just that we could of got the same production for much less.
This post was edited on 6/9/15 at 11:50 am
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:51 am to Dr. Shultz
quote:
I still think it is too early to tell if Cleveland got fleeced
They def got fleeced. I said it at the time, and I like Kevin Love. Wiggins next to Lebron would have developed into an all-time great in my opinion. They could have been good enough to win this year and were set up to have Lebron, Kyrie and Wiggins down the road
I understand why they did it and I know Lebron was pushing for it so they kind of had to, but man that would have been unfair.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:53 am to PortCityTiger24
quote:Think about Dwade year 1 with Lebron compared to 2 and 3.
They def got fleeced. I said it at the time, and I like Kevin Love
There's really no reason to think they can't get better playing together IMO.
quote:I don't disagree it would be a formidable option. But By the time Wiggins reaches his potential, Lebron will probably be starting to hit that decline...and not the decline from epic to great, i mean the real decline.
I understand why they did it and I know Lebron was pushing for it so they kind of had to, but man that would have been unfair
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:55 am to PortCityTiger24
quote:or it could have stunted his growth....
Wiggins next to Lebron would have developed into an all-time great in my opinion
As the article states, no one knew how the dominoes would fall... and also LeBron, Love, Kyrie will probably mesh better in year two much like the Heat improved from year 1 to year 2.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 11:57 am to shel311
Love isn't a great perimeter defender, but he did lead the team in defensive rebounds and total rebounds per game this year, so to say he contributes nothing on defense is a bit of a stretch.
It must be hard to adjust your game when a guy like LeBron James is on your team. The guy still contributed to the offense in a big way.
It must be hard to adjust your game when a guy like LeBron James is on your team. The guy still contributed to the offense in a big way.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 12:16 pm to PortCityTiger24
quote:
I understand why they did it and I know Lebron was pushing for it
so basically the Cleveland FO didn't learn their lesson the first time with Lebron.
Patience was key here and they rushed to put together their own super group, regardless of whether or not the pieces actually fit
Posted on 6/9/15 at 12:17 pm to BilJ
quote:I remember the pieces didn't fit argument during and after season 1 in MIA.
Patience was key here and they rushed to put together their own super group, regardless of whether or not the pieces actually fit
Posted on 6/9/15 at 12:18 pm to shel311
Exactly. Bilj is the one not exercising patience here.
This post was edited on 6/9/15 at 12:18 pm
Posted on 6/9/15 at 12:32 pm to Nonetheless
Most teams shouldn't be touching Love with a 10 foot pole. I actually do think he'd be a good fit in Houston, since our PFs are already bad defenders without the production of Love.
Although D-Mo really improved this year, and he has added the three point shot to his game, which gives him a real ability to stretch the floor.
I am so down on Love's defense though. I've said it before here, but your offensive numbers don't mean shite if the average player you are guarding becomes great every night.
Although D-Mo really improved this year, and he has added the three point shot to his game, which gives him a real ability to stretch the floor.
I am so down on Love's defense though. I've said it before here, but your offensive numbers don't mean shite if the average player you are guarding becomes great every night.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 12:34 pm to shel311
quote:
I remember the pieces didn't fit argument during and after season 1 in MIA.
The pieces didn't fit in Miami. LeBron was just that good, and Bosh completely changed his game to fill a huge hole. The Big 3 concept really got going with Boston years ago, and it worked so much better for them. They had a great post presence in Garnett, a great scorer in Pierce, and a great three point shooter in Allen, and to cap things off they had a point guard who hated to score. That Big 3 fit perfectly together.
This post was edited on 6/9/15 at 12:39 pm
Posted on 6/9/15 at 12:39 pm to philabuck
quote:It's possible. They did seem to get him different looks before he went down though. He started posting up and looked damn good doing it if I remember correctly. It was a very small sample of games though.
I just think we gave up too much for a player that basically got turned into a volume three point shooter
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