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Permanent Life Insurance vs 529

Posted on 6/29/15 at 9:50 am
Posted by STLhog
Nashville, TN
Member since Jan 2015
17718 posts
Posted on 6/29/15 at 9:50 am
Anyone have any experience with the former? I was talking to an adviser over the weekend that swears by PLI vs 529.

I wasn't paying him so we didn't get into the nitty gritty but does anyone have any experience with this vehicle? The way he made it sound is the returns can be much greater and its out of the governments control.
This post was edited on 6/29/15 at 10:00 am
Posted by Shepherd88
Member since Dec 2013
4590 posts
Posted on 6/29/15 at 9:59 am to
A 529 invested correctly should smoke the returns on the PLI, you're taking about 8% avg return on a 529 vs 3% on PLI.

The PLI will give you more flexibility on what you could use the proceeds for, however if you cash it out there will be a taxable benefit. If you create a "loan" on the PLI then the benefit is tax free but then you have loan interest eroding away your meager cash value.

If you cash out the 529 and use the proceeds for qualified secondary education expenses then it's all tax free. If you cash it out and use it on hookers and blow, you're gonna have a fun tax bill (10% penalty + income tax).
Posted by STLhog
Nashville, TN
Member since Jan 2015
17718 posts
Posted on 6/29/15 at 10:02 am to
quote:

If you cash out the 529 and use the proceeds for qualified secondary education expenses then it's all tax free. If you cash it out and use it on hookers and blow, you're gonna have a fun tax bill (10% penalty + income tax).


That's just it though, how do you actually plan correctly for expenses? No idea what tuition will be etc etc.

Why have that money just sitting in there if it doesn't all get used and then get screwed on the taxes?

Guess it just makes sense to have a balance between a 529 and cash and obviously use all the 529..
Posted by Shepherd88
Member since Dec 2013
4590 posts
Posted on 6/29/15 at 10:37 am to
It's the same way you have to calculate how much you will need during retirement, a lot of moving variable obviously. But any plan is better than none.

There are some tools out there that will calculate how much LSU for example should cost in 10 years for an in state tuition. Then you can simply figure out how much you need to save per month in a 529 estimating a 7% return using a future value calc.

To address your concern on having some $ leftover, you can easily change the beneficiary of the account at that point to anyone, including yourself, or another family member, and use it for an accredited course if so be it. Or even leave it in his name and let it continue to compound for his children one day. Just different avenues of thought.

Just know I'm not providing advice here for your specific situation. I believe this is where it is worth it to talk to another advisor closer to you.
Posted by STLhog
Nashville, TN
Member since Jan 2015
17718 posts
Posted on 6/29/15 at 10:39 am to
Good information. Thanks man.

This guy was really convincing. I need to be wary of the dog and pony shows though.
Posted by iknowmorethanyou
Paydirt
Member since Jul 2007
6548 posts
Posted on 6/29/15 at 10:57 am to
In fairness, 3% is an antiquated assumption. IUL's and VUL's if done correctly will be in the 6-8% range over a 15-20 year accumulation phase.

These contracts also have guaranteed zero cost loans after year 5. The industry has evolved.

This post was edited on 6/29/15 at 10:59 am
Posted by lsu13lsu
Member since Jan 2008
11485 posts
Posted on 6/29/15 at 11:12 am to
quote:

These contracts also have guaranteed zero cost loans after year 5. The industry has evolved.


Do you still have to pay interest on the loans or completely zero costs?
Posted by BestBanker
Member since Nov 2011
17484 posts
Posted on 6/29/15 at 11:13 am to
quote:

does anyone have any experience with this vehicle? The way he made it sound is the returns can be much greater and its out of the governments control.


I do. Run the premium into PLI, use cash value for your investment deposit, stays out of 529 oversight, you keep PLI, investment grows, own 2 assets with the same dollar, possible tax deduction. Overall return on asset purchase is higher. Do not over fund the PLI with pua. Leverage death benefit later in life for tax free advantage.
Posted by lsu13lsu
Member since Jan 2008
11485 posts
Posted on 6/29/15 at 11:17 am to
quote:

I do. Run the premium into PLI, use cash value for your investment deposit, stays out of 529 oversight, you keep PLI, investment grows, own 2 assets with the same dollar, possible tax deduction. Overall return on asset purchase is higher. Do not over fund the PLI with pua. Leverage death benefit later in life for tax free advantage.



I think to understand this you already have to be an expert in Permanent Life Insurance.
Posted by BestBanker
Member since Nov 2011
17484 posts
Posted on 6/29/15 at 11:25 am to
I wouldn't disagree, but it is understandable with proper guidance. Not difficult but considered different to a typical saver.
Posted by STLhog
Nashville, TN
Member since Jan 2015
17718 posts
Posted on 6/29/15 at 3:16 pm to
After doing more research PLI seems like the way to go.

Essentially if you front end load and contribute enough, you can have your dividends paying the premium.

The flexibility and lack of risk seems way more prudent.
Posted by BestBanker
Member since Nov 2011
17484 posts
Posted on 6/29/15 at 5:37 pm to
Agreed. Cash from policy can be used for any monetary use. I use for commercial interests.
Posted by EA6B
TX
Member since Dec 2012
14754 posts
Posted on 6/29/15 at 6:23 pm to
quote:

This guy was really convincing. I need to be wary of the dog and pony shows though.


I am guessing your "advisor" is only licensed to sell insurance, find a actual financial planner/advisor that is licensed to offer the full spectrum of investment vehicles, and you will get a different recommendation.
Posted by jondavid11
benton,la
Member since Aug 2007
1152 posts
Posted on 6/29/15 at 8:50 pm to
529 and never look back. State also matches from 2%-14% of your contribution and you can take a state tax deduction in year you contribute.
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