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Pension Lump sum question

Posted on 10/19/23 at 7:44 am
Posted by AUTimbo
Member since Sep 2011
2868 posts
Posted on 10/19/23 at 7:44 am
Admitted financial idiot here with a question for you monetary gurus.

Age 60. Plan on retiring at 62-65 (prob 65)
Left company and will be starting new position next week. Am considering taking lump sum pension pymt from old company and paying off mortgage.

Have @ 17 yrs left on note, no other notes, no credit card debt. With tax penalty taken into consideration will be right at amount to pay off house.

Smart or dumb move and why. Really like the idea of being debt free and putting house pymt amount into Roth or whatever going forward. Welcome to all viewpoints on this matter… so help a brother out
Posted by GeauxTigers777
Member since Oct 2007
1572 posts
Posted on 10/19/23 at 7:56 am to
What’s your other investments, what’s the pension amount, what’s the payout if you leave it in? What’s your plans for the limo sum if you remove it?
Posted by AUTimbo
Member since Sep 2011
2868 posts
Posted on 10/19/23 at 8:04 am to
Pension Payout 170K
Monthly @1K

500K in 401, other investments

Lump sum, after taxes, used to pay off mortgage
This post was edited on 10/19/23 at 8:05 am
Posted by Dock Holiday
Member since Sep 2015
1637 posts
Posted on 10/19/23 at 8:05 am to
Loan interest rate ? I assume it's better than current Bidenomics rates?

Compare your current loan interest rate against a modest return if you invest the lump sum, you could find your answer there.
This assumes you are not financially strapped by continuing to pay the monthly notes.
Posted by Kipsgto
Member since Sep 2022
40 posts
Posted on 10/19/23 at 8:10 am to
Not An expert. Your situation is similar to mine. If you live in Alabama check and see if it’s a defined benefit plan, no state taxes will be taken out if it is.
Posted by AUTimbo
Member since Sep 2011
2868 posts
Posted on 10/19/23 at 8:16 am to
3.25%
Posted by AUTimbo
Member since Sep 2011
2868 posts
Posted on 10/19/23 at 8:17 am to
quote:

see if it’s a defined benefit plan, no state taxes will be taken out if it is


SC. Not sure but will ck later today
Posted by Kipsgto
Member since Sep 2022
40 posts
Posted on 10/19/23 at 8:33 am to
I wouldn’t pay off the mortgage at that rate. T bills will pay you over 5%
Posted by UpstairsComputer
Prairieville
Member since Jan 2017
1576 posts
Posted on 10/19/23 at 8:36 am to
No way you should do this. Don't know your income on the year, but add 170k to that. Let's assume that pushes you into the 32% marginal tax bracket, your taxes would be $54,000. You shouldn't have penalties being over 59.5. So your net is closer to 115k.

Without figuring your interest payments over the next 17 years, at a modest 6% return, you should have accumulated $470,000 in the IRA you should move your pension to.

So you're spending $170,000 to pay off a $115,000 mortgage and giving up $300,000 in opportunity cost (470-170). Not your best idea, to be sure.
Posted by meansonny
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
25602 posts
Posted on 10/19/23 at 8:38 am to
quote:

Loan interest rate ? I assume it's better than current Bidenomics rates?


This.

Don't make an effort to pay off low interest debt like this.

Find out what you want your retirement to look like and start there.
Do you want a condo on the beach? That's a helluva down-payment.
Deep sea fisher?
Fly fisherman or hunter? Buy land.
Traveler? Get some motorcycles or RVs. Or do big trips.

There is nothing wrong with not knowing yet.
But once you rid yourself of that low interest rate, you can't get it back for any other venture.
Posted by AUTimbo
Member since Sep 2011
2868 posts
Posted on 10/19/23 at 8:52 am to
Appreciate any and all views fellas, so thanks to all.

Wife and I are not big travellers but a few beach trips/ Carribean/Key West getaways are our retirement wants

Hunting/fishing type of guy, so land purchase could be an option. We consider ourselves in our forever home, so no beach condos, etc on our horizon for investment purposes.

We lead a fairly nice, simple life and are both in good health. The thoughts of being indebted to the system with regards to our home trouble me, with the way things are headed in the world/U.S. Knowing our home is ours for good would relieve alot of troubling fears in my mind. But if it costs too much future financial potential then it probably isn’t the right move. Just really torn on this
Posted by Klondikekajun
Member since Jun 2020
1284 posts
Posted on 10/19/23 at 8:55 am to
A lot of good points made here, but the biggest and most important (IMHO) Is go see a fiduciary financial planner NOW before you do anything.
Even if you don't want to let them manage,talk to a pro who can set up a plan & strategy based on your goals and resources to protect your assets, understand the tax implications, and guide you on making these very important decisions.
You won't get a second chance if you screw this up.
Posted by AUTimbo
Member since Sep 2011
2868 posts
Posted on 10/19/23 at 9:07 am to
I’ll add one other detail.
The company I left is a major name, but on the downslide IMHO.
Every major business bigwig retiring /leaving and being replaced with people from the land of Hindu. Stock should be strong, but sliding while other major defense-type companies stock rising strong.
Potential for pension to not be there in the future is a legit concern.
Kinda falls back to the old saying “A little of something is better than a whole lot of nothing””
Posted by meansonny
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
25602 posts
Posted on 10/19/23 at 9:25 am to
His pension is different.

Cash value pensions are basically held in treasuries.

I don't know the rules about secured debt (can a cash value pension be security against debt)?

But it is virtually the same as a 401k without any market upside/risk. Once vested, it is his cash.
Posted by Weekend Warrior79
Member since Aug 2014
16397 posts
Posted on 10/19/23 at 11:24 am to
Have you looked into whether the monthly payments from the pension would cover your mortgage and then last long enough to pay the mortgage balance? This should help reduce your tax hit this year, and when you are fully retired you can then revisit taking larger sums out at a lower rate.

But you may want to talk to an advisor about how this could impact your future tax implications, especially with SS & Medicare. Your answer could end up being, take out enough for the next 5 years to cover your note; then a lump sum the first year after you retire.
Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
20457 posts
Posted on 10/19/23 at 11:40 am to
There's times it makes a lot of sense to do this but this doens't seem like one of those. As said with your mortgage at 3.25% you can fairly easily get 5% guaranteed returns right now. You'd be better off applying 100% of your pension to your mortgage for a long time.
Posted by CBDTiger
NOLA
Member since Mar 2004
1245 posts
Posted on 10/19/23 at 1:14 pm to
quote:

Age 60. Plan on retiring at 62-65 (prob 65) Left company and will be starting new position next week. Am considering taking lump sum pension pymt from old company and paying off mortgage.


Your LS pension payout should be significantly larger at age 65 compared to age 60.

Your payout will be reduced, likely for each month that you take it prior to normal retirement age under the plan (likely age 65).

The present value of your LS pension will also be affected by interest rates. With today's high interest rates, the present value of an amount that would otherwise be paid to you in 5 years will be relatively low compared to recent years when rates were lower. If you wait a few years for rates to (hopefully) come down a few points, the present value will be higher.

Your mortgage lender would love for you to pay off the loan if they're only getting 3.25% interest on your loan. Banks are paying at least 5.5% to borrow money from each other (Fed Funds rate). You're likely going to see your LS pension value increase by more than 3.25% per year for the next few years, so you're coming out ahead leaving the $ in the pension fund.
Posted by meansonny
ATL
Member since Sep 2012
25602 posts
Posted on 10/19/23 at 2:54 pm to
quote:

Your LS pension payout should be significantly larger at age 65 compared to age 60.

The cash value pensions that I have seen don't work that way.

It will be larger. But only by how much compound interest it earns (often at treasury rates).

You are thinking of a defined benefit plan and the value of deferring retirement (at least in my experience, that is what you are thinking).
Posted by HighlyFavoredTiger
TexLaArk
Member since Jun 2018
879 posts
Posted on 10/19/23 at 4:02 pm to
I’m not a financial guru either but when I left a company that offered pension, I took mine as a lump sum and rolled it directly into an IRA, so there was no immediate taxes.
At current interest, Fidelity and possibly others have 10 year CD’s at 4.55% and $170,000 should earn you over $110,000 at that rate in 10 years.
If you owe 17 years and $170,000 would pay it off I’m guessing your monthly note isn’t real large, personally I would keep the low interest loan and invest the pension.
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
84886 posts
Posted on 10/19/23 at 6:14 pm to
quote:

3.25%


Let’s assume your mortgage balance is around $130,000. - at 3.25%, you’re going to pay about $40,000 in interest over the next 17 years.

You’re probably going to pay even more than that in taxes on the lump sum withdrawal, not even considering the current risk free rate environment.

Also, given your other balances, it’s highly likely you’ll be able to withdraw your retirement assets at minimal to possibly 0% tax rates with proper planning, so for that reason, among many others, this is a bad idea.
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