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re: Vision, philosophy, and planning for a HC
Posted on 9/28/17 at 12:30 pm to atltiger6487
Posted on 9/28/17 at 12:30 pm to atltiger6487
Yet, just like CLM, he can't/hasn't beaten Saban. If he were LSU's coach, can't beat Saban/Bama, and starts out 0-2, we'd be calling for his head. See last year...
0
Posted on 9/28/17 at 12:36 pm to Andychapman13
quote:
I just don't believe Orgeron has that vision, philosophy, and when you lack those 2 things it's hard to develop a plan.
Fair enough - perhaps I even agree with you to a point.
Which of your candidates were available and willing to take the job?
Now don't say "20 other guys" or "anybody but O" because that's no kind of answer.
Recall that our AD made a frank admission that he did not want to bid for talent and he did not want to negotiate. Using that criteria, I submit O was about the best candidate we could have reasonably landed. I wish I was joking.
Posted on 9/28/17 at 12:40 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Now don't say "20 other guys" or "anybody but O" because that's no kind of answer.
Why do you say that's not a valid answer?
How can we give you any other answer when there was no search and none of those guys was offered? If they had been offered and declined then perhaps the selection of O would've been more palatable.
In fact, we can still say Herman, because he never declined, his offer was withdrawn.
This post was edited on 9/28/17 at 12:42 pm
Posted on 9/28/17 at 12:47 pm to Tiger Ree
Comparing O to Jimbo Fischer? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH no comparison.
Natty v. 0 titles for O
Winning record as a HC v 13-30 something for O
2 College football playoffs v 2 succesful Interim HC
NO COMPARISON
Natty v. 0 titles for O
Winning record as a HC v 13-30 something for O
2 College football playoffs v 2 succesful Interim HC
NO COMPARISON
Posted on 9/28/17 at 12:47 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
How can we give you any other answer when there was no search and none of those guys was offered? If they had been offered and declined then perhaps the selection of O would've been more palatable.
Well as far as we know, Jimbo said something to the effect of "not interested" and Hermann said, "I need to talk to Texas."
Now - what does a strong negotiator who has identified these 2 as his strongest candidates do? MAKE one of them say yes. That's possible.
I mean, other teams hire head coaches all the time. Even LSU, with a less than stellar track record of hiring coaches in the modern era, we hired 2 highly successful head coaches (arguably our 2 most successful if you base that on winning percentage and conference/national championships) just 5 years apart.
So, all this, "Coulda, woulda, shoulda" nonsense is just that nonsense. We didn't say, "Well, Mr. Hermann, we're going to offer you what we think the job is worth - today - with incentives that if you perform up to or in excess of expectations, then we'll make you the 2nd highest paid coach in conference, and therefore all of CFB, and if you sustain that you will become the highest paid head coach. Does that change your posture with regards to Texas? Because if it doesn't, we're moving on."
And then you call Jimbo back with that same or a better offer (because, frankly, on paper Jimbo was worth more last year - still is, IMHO.) And then you go down to the very next candidate.
I HAVE to believe that if this was done, we would have gotten to Dan Mullen at some point and he would be our coach today. Am I a Mullen fan? Kind of. Do I think he would make a great coach here? Probably.
Regardless, he's a proven successful coach, at a tough spot to do that from, in our own league and division. I'm not saying SEC experience trumps everything, but it is highly relevant when you're selecting a candidate.
Now - having said all this, I'm 100% behind O. Why? He's the coach of my goddamned football team. That's why.
Posted on 9/28/17 at 12:51 pm to Andychapman13
The truth is that nobody can really identify who will and who won't be a great Coach. We are wrong about " the next great coach" far more than we are right .
Posted on 9/28/17 at 8:44 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
Explain to me "Mr Great Coach", why did a more talented FSU team lose to a less talented NC St team at home
I would guess not playing for 3 weeks was also a factor but all coaches lose games, a concept that seems to elude you. Good coaches win more than they lose. Fishers overall record is considerably better
Posted on 9/28/17 at 8:48 pm to Lsupimp
quote:
The truth is that nobody can really identify who will and who won't be a great Coach. We are wrong about " the next great coach" far more than we are right
That's true, but we can identify who has been a horrible coach and pretending like it doesn't matter because it was a " a long time ago" or because he did ok as an interim coach but propping that record up with meaningless cherry picking won't change that.
Posted on 9/28/17 at 8:57 pm to Andychapman13
quote:
I just don't believe Orgeron has that vision, philosophy,
I just don't believe you have a clue about Orgeron's vision and philosophy.
Posted on 9/29/17 at 11:22 am to P bean
quote:
Comparing O to Jimbo Fischer? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH no comparison.
Natty v. 0 titles for O
Winning record as a HC v 13-30 something for O
2 College football playoffs v 2 succesful Interim HC
NO COMPARISON
2017
Coach Eaux 3-1
Jimbo Fisher 0-2 - with a home loss to NC ST.
Not comparing historical data just pointing out that Jimbo hasn't shown the "Vision, philosophy, and planning for a HC" this season that the OP was harping on.
Posted on 9/29/17 at 11:28 am to omegaman66
quote:
I just don't believe you have a clue about Orgeron's vision and philosophy.
I know when he had the OM job he said he wanted to re-create the USC offense with a Reggie Bush type back, and when he got this job he said he wanted a spread offense. Seems like he has no guiding philosophy and just wants to do what's hot at the moment.
Posted on 9/29/17 at 11:37 am to Goldrush25
quote:
Seems like he has no guiding philosophy and just wants to do what's hot at the moment.
Does that mean "he just wants to do what it takes for LSU to WIN"?
Posted on 9/29/17 at 11:40 am to Tiger Ree
Tiger Ree! Welcome back buddy. Some of us were worried about you. You haven't posted since the Mississippi State beatdown. At least this is the first time I've noticed any of your posts.
Anyway, good to see you've recovered from that loss and have resumed the roll of head cheerleader of the O-team. Your buddy Space Cowboy has been hard at work, doing a lot of heavy lifting, but that sap just ain't very good at the job.
Carry on friend and have a good day.
Anyway, good to see you've recovered from that loss and have resumed the roll of head cheerleader of the O-team. Your buddy Space Cowboy has been hard at work, doing a lot of heavy lifting, but that sap just ain't very good at the job.
Carry on friend and have a good day.
Posted on 9/29/17 at 12:04 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
Does that mean "he just wants to do what it takes for LSU to WIN"?
Of course he wants to win. Who the hell doesn't want to win? But knowing how to win is something different.
There's immense value in a coach that is committed to his own strategy. If you're just jumping from one philosophy to the other, there's no chance that you can be as intimately familiar with the preparation and details needed to execute that plan as well as someone that uses that plan as their bible and has done so for years. As with anything else, there's nuance that you only learn through trial and error.
It's as if you guys have zero appreciation for the amount of time it takes for a coach to become good at his job. You can't become great just by talking a good game. You could literally give Orgeron Dabo's, Urban Meyer's, Saban's playbook and we'd still have the same damn results that we have right now.
This post was edited on 9/29/17 at 12:12 pm
Posted on 9/29/17 at 12:19 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
there's no chance that you can be as intimately familiar with the preparation and details needed to execute that plan as well as someone that uses that plan as their bible
Like Nick Saban hiring Lane Kiffin?
quote:
And one of the reasons Nick Saban hired Kiffin was because he wanted someone who could bring a true pro-style approach to Alabama’s offense while also modernizing it, as Saban had seen first hand how quickly offensive football was changing. Kiffin has largely succeeded on both fronts.
Or Joe Gibbs in the 80's and 90's when he won three Superbowls?
quote:
The hallmark of Joe Gibbs’s Washington teams of the 1980s and 1990s was the Counter Trey or Counter Gap play, which featured the backside guard and backside tackle (two members of the Hogs) pulling to lead the way for John Riggins and Washington’s other powerful backs. The play became synonymous with Gibbs and Washington, and many credit his success with it as the reason why it is so ubiquitous in football today.
But Gibbs didn’t think of the play on his own. “We stole it,” Gibbs told Sports Illustrated. “We saw some film on Nebraska, and Tom Osborne was doing some really innovative things with his line up front. We were watching it and thought, God, that’s good stuff. So we stole it.”
Yeah but, "there's no chance that you can be as intimately familiar with the preparation and details needed to execute that plan as well as someone that uses that plan as their bible."
Ha Ha Ha !!!
Yeah, never change. Successful coaches always stick to their "bible".
quote:
You could literally give Orgeron Dabo's, Urban Meyer's, Saban's playbook and we'd still have the same damn results that we have right now.
Yeah sure man, sure. Would he get their players also. If he did it would be the same as their teams or maybe even better if he got to keep the assistants he has.
Posted on 9/29/17 at 12:24 pm to Tiger Ree
Gibbs, Saban. 
Go ahead, keep trying to make all of these comparison between Orgeron and proven successful coaches. Keep thinking that's helping you make your point.
All of those coaches had philosophies and incorporated other elements to adapt to the times. They didn't make sweeping changes. Did you even watch Bama last year? They were still a run heavy team, like always. Saban's prints were all over that offense.
Go ahead, keep trying to make all of these comparison between Orgeron and proven successful coaches. Keep thinking that's helping you make your point.
All of those coaches had philosophies and incorporated other elements to adapt to the times. They didn't make sweeping changes. Did you even watch Bama last year? They were still a run heavy team, like always. Saban's prints were all over that offense.
This post was edited on 9/29/17 at 12:26 pm
Posted on 9/29/17 at 12:31 pm to Tiger Ree
He can't manage his coordinators because he does not their systems because he's just not that smart. That's the issue. I'm an assistant principal of a school and I'm not bad at it. But when I start slipping my boss (principal) rides my arse and keeps me in check. But if she let me sit on my arse and only show up to work when I felt like it her school would fall apart, but she is good principal and keeps me a good assistant principal. O basically told Canada "Hey, here's $1.8mil/year, now go run a good offense. I hired you because you're smarter than me." Now, here we are almost midway through the season and nobody knows the offense?!?! Wtf?!?!
Posted on 9/29/17 at 12:47 pm to Andychapman13
quote:
(Saban, Meyer, Harbaugh, Swinney, Fisher, Patterson) do.
one guy doesn't belong on this list
Posted on 9/29/17 at 12:54 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
Go ahead, keep trying to make all of these comparison between Orgeron and proven successful coaches. Keep thinking that's helping you make your point.
I wasn't using them to make a point other than how stupid your argument is.
Do you deny that Saban and his "bible" hired a "West Coast" offensive guy in Kiffin?
Do you deny that 3-time superbowl champion Joe Gibbs admits to stealing plays from Nebraska that defined his career and success?
What did their "bible" say when they went in entirely different directions than what it had said all of their previous years of coaching?
quote:
All of those coaches had philosophies and incorporated other elements to adapt to the times.
I thought you said they had a "bible" and stuck to it. Is it okay for them to change but not Coach Eaux? That was the point of your earlier post about the "bible", REMEMBER?
quote:
Did you even watch Bama last year?
Yes I did. I saw that they were 15th in scoring offense and 34th in total offense with Kiffin as the OC. They weren't totally dependent on defense.
quote:
Saban's prints were all over that offense.
Yeah, that's why he berated himself on the sidelines every time the offense had a boneheaded play.
quote:
There was a memorable meltdown on the Alabama sideline for the second time this season.
Late in the Crimson Tide's 38-10 defeat of Western Kentucky, coach Nick Saban let loose on offensive coordinator Lane Kiffin, who has been the subject of previous Saban tirades during his three years on the job.
Saban on his late sideline blowup at Kiffin: "There are no arguments. Those are called arse-chewings."
quote:
Nick Saban went crazy on the sidelines and chewed out Lane Kiffin at the end of Saturday's win over Western Kentucky. Alabama was up 38-3 with 2:10 left and the game was essentially over,...
Ha Ha Ha !!!
Posted on 9/29/17 at 12:58 pm to Andychapman13
quote:
He can't manage his coordinators because he does not their systems because he's just not that smart. That's the issue
quote:
O basically told Canada "Hey, here's $1.8mil/year, now go run a good offense
Showing off your brilliance again ??? Your thread sucks and you are wrong. You should just try to let it go away.
Here's something I saw yesterday.
quote:
Someone from Twitter asked Coach O how much freedom he gives Matt Canada to run the offense. “I let him run it but obviously make some adjustments if something needs to be fixed… We’ve done some good things. We’re gonna tweak things and minimize things and I think you'll see improvement this week.”
Damn, but you're right, coach Eaux has no input.
https://www.dandydon.com/
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