- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: The way the voters should view the Alabama rematch situation
Posted on 11/26/11 at 11:26 pm to LSU
Posted on 11/26/11 at 11:26 pm to LSU
quote:
I'm for a playoff also, but do you really think it wouldn't end up LSU vs. Alabama in a playoff this year?
At least that would give a team that hasn't lost to the other a chance.
0
Posted on 11/26/11 at 11:31 pm to MStreetTiger
quote:
So not necessarily if they played in the regular season, but in the case of LSU v Alabama, yes, because they already played in the regular season (as you stated).
Are you really pretending not to know the basics of college footballs organization? I mean, I can take your hand and lead you. Here goes.
Teams play an entire "regular season" against other teams in an organizational entity known as a conference. The goal of the members of the conference is to see which member team is best in relation to the rest of the teams. This is measured by overall record. Once this is established, the best team from each division plays the other division since not every team in the conference gets to play one another. The winner is eligible for a bowl berth.
Here's the tricky part so stay with me.
There comes about problems when two teams have the same win loss record. The way our system solves that is to say, well if both teams are equal, lets look at who won head to head to decide who is the best and who gets to advance.
Heres how it all fits in:
The point of sporting competition in general is to determine who, out of two teams that play each other in a game, is the best at the sport they play. SO, therefore, if the national championship is supposed to give two teams a chance to decide who's better (albeit in a bigger stakes game: here the better team is considered not only better but THE BEST), why even bother having it if that has already been decided? Then the "tie breaker" of head to head match up is equal and confusion ensues. All after the better team has already been decided in a sporting competition.
This post was edited on 11/26/11 at 11:32 pm
Posted on 11/26/11 at 11:36 pm to BleedPurpleGold
quote:
Since we're shackled to a system that doesn't seek out the best team I guess you're right.
The best team is LSU and LSU will play in it. the system does not insure LSU it's easiest avenue to win it just the opportunity to win it against the best opponent.
There is not exception for rematches or non-conference champs. We can lobby for that and maybe get it changed one day as they've tweaked this system ad-nauseum maybe all the ESPN pukes who don't want rematches every again (if it comes to that) can get it done.
But until then it's the system we signed up.
quote:
So what was the reason in playing them in the regular season?
It's a regular season game on our schedule. We have to play them. and the BCS would be a championship game.
Just like when Tennessee beat us in 2001 it was a regular season game and when we beat them it was the SEC Championship game...that cost them a shot at the national title game.
I bet Florida wasn't to happy about the system that allowed a team they crushed to play for the SEC title instead of them, but the system says East winner vs. west winner even if the West Winner has 3 losses.
And just as this system is set up to try to get the two best teams to play for the national title whether they've played already or not.
Hey, I hate the sytem too...I'm a playoff guy and always have been.
But you know the don't sweat the things you can't change deal...I'm good with it and I'm good with playing Bama again if the system dictates and it being for the title cause it's what's required to win the title. Win by the rules as they exist and work to change down the line if you have issues.
Posted on 11/26/11 at 11:39 pm to NoGeaux
You do realize in a playoff we would most likely have a rematch against bama and Oregon possible Arkansas? Why is everyone against a rematch?
Posted on 11/26/11 at 11:39 pm to BleedPurpleGold
The only problem is, we don't really know that the SEC is the "best" conference this year. We do know that the presumptive SEC champ is better than the presumptive Pac-12 and Big Least champs, and that the SEC went 3-1 against the ACC this weekend, but all we have for comparison between the SEC and Big-12 is the Arky-A&M game, (SEC's #3 beat the Big-12's #7) which doesn't say much. The Big-12 might actually be a better conference than the SEC (a few computers seem to think so: LINK) and their champ, if they only have 1-loss, should get a chance to prove it.
This post was edited on 11/26/11 at 11:46 pm
Posted on 11/26/11 at 11:46 pm to BleedPurpleGold
quote:
You're missing the point of it though. The whole reason for the ranking system is to decide which team is the best in college football. Has that decision not already been made between these two schools in question?
This. Oh my god, this.
If the BCS decides that Alabama and LSU are the two best teams in the country, then there is absolutely no reason to have a game. We did already and won.
Someone else deserves a chance. It isn't fair to at least OK State, VT, and almost certainly to LSU. And I know this "fairness" arguement has been disregarded as whining. Well, there is nothing whinier than a team who complains that a kicker cost them a national championship.
Posted on 11/26/11 at 11:46 pm to Tiger Ugly
quote:
The best team is LSU and LSU will play in it.
Subjectively. Because a national championship should decide that objectively.
quote:
the system does not insure LSU it's easiest avenue to win it just the opportunity to win it against the best opponent.
I'm not seeking an easy route. Just what I perceive as a more fair route. I think the majority of the country would agree. They did in 2006. They should now also. It would only be fair for another 1 loss team to get the shot at proving something Alabama already tried and could not.
quote:
There is not exception for rematches or non-conference champs. We can lobby for that and maybe get it changed one day as they've tweaked this system ad-nauseum maybe all the ESPN pukes who don't want rematches every again (if it comes to that) can get it done.
But until then it's the system we signed up.
I totally understand this. And it sucks. Which is basically what I was saying when I conceded that I was wrong about the ultimate goal of the BCS.
quote:
Just like when Tennessee beat us in 2001 it was a regular season game and when we beat them it was the SEC Championship game...that cost them a shot at the national title game.
I see what you mean. But I don't think the object of the SEC title game is to decide who is the national champion of college football (albeit I would say its ultimate goal would be to decide who was best in the SEC and that was obviously not done)
Posted on 11/26/11 at 11:47 pm to BleedPurpleGold
quote:
I disagree. The point is to decide on the field which is the best CFB team in the country. That decision, if it were between LSU and Alabama, has already been decided. Let someone else have a shot that hasn't already had a shot at proving they are the best.
Exactly. That said, especially after these last couple of weeks, I am under the mindset of "Whoever the hell you want to throw at us, do it."
New opponents like Stanford or OSU...some "random" team like Va Tech...or Alabama AGAIN...I like our chances.
Posted on 11/26/11 at 11:47 pm to Tyger1919
quote:
You do realize in a playoff we would most likely have a rematch against bama and Oregon possible Arkansas? Why is everyone against a rematch?
We are college football folks and even though rematches to win championships in every other sport and at every other level are commonplace they are not in college football.
You're starting to see them now in college football championship games, but it's never happened in the BCS title series so it's the unknown and it's considered unfair since "every games a playoff" in college football.
However conference title game rematches have shaped a couple championship matchups and I guess we've got used to the notion there but not for the big prize.
I think it's all B.S. and it will be an MNC until/if there's a playoff.
But that's a whole other thread.
Posted on 11/26/11 at 11:49 pm to SLTiger29
quote:
If the BCS decides that Alabama and LSU are the two best teams in the country, then there is absolutely no reason to have a game. We did already and won.
I guess this is what I'm trying to say. But since we have to have a game I just think it would be fairer for another team.
If you go to the BCS site though this apparently isn't their ultimate goal. The national champion isn't the best team in college football, its the winner of the BCS championship.
Posted on 11/26/11 at 11:56 pm to LSU
The purpose of the BCS is NOT to match the two best teams. It is simply to match #1 vs #2. It uses a system of polls and computers to determine who those should be and is weighted more towards the human polls. Therefore, it is up to who the humans want to rate as #1 and #2 and thus meet in the National Championship game. If the the polls believe that Blama got their shot and don't deserve another one and rate someone else #2 then the system worked. If Blama gets ranked #1 or #2 then it worked. It always works for what it is stated to be: #1 vs #2. It is based on opinion and preference - that is all.
Posted on 11/26/11 at 11:57 pm to LSU
quote:
The purpose of the voters & BCS is to match the 2 best teams in college football:
Says who? I'd say its more accurate to say the purpose is to match the two teams that have accomplished the most. Its quite possible, even common, for teams to accomplish less than their ability allows.
Not many voters thought Florida was better than Michigan 5 years ago. They made sure Florida went because they decided that they simply had a better resume and because they recently saw Michigan play Ohio State.
This post was edited on 11/26/11 at 11:58 pm
Posted on 11/27/11 at 12:04 am to Tyger1919
quote:
You do realize in a playoff we would most likely have a rematch against bama and Oregon possible Arkansas? Why is everyone against a rematch?
But we already had that playoff. Bring somebody else that hasn't lost to us.
A rematch is fine when you have 32 teams and 16 games. But when you have 120 teams and 12 games a rematch is ridiculous.
Posted on 11/27/11 at 12:06 am to Tyger1919
quote:
You do realize in a playoff we would most likely have a rematch against bama and Oregon possible Arkansas? Why is everyone against a rematch?
I think the idea is that the regular season is the playoff. We very well might have to play teams again if there is ever a playoff. Certainly there will be rematches at some point. But a true playoff involves giving more than two teams a chance to win a championship. That's not what we have here. If LSU defeats UGA (I'll avoid the idea that we're a lock even if we lose) we're talking about who gets one spot. With only one spot, its appropriate to treat previous matchups as though they were single-elimination playoff games and move forward.
This post was edited on 11/27/11 at 12:09 am
Posted on 11/27/11 at 12:08 am to Morgus
Agreed. This is the very argument used by the BCS creators and managers. The regular season is a playoff. That is why Mich did not get a rematch with OSU. But again it is left up to sentiment of voters to decide what they want.
Posted on 11/27/11 at 12:10 am to Tigerinasia
Personally, I think we are the favorite to win against any team we play in the NC game, including Alabama.
That being said, I can definetly understand the argument against the rematch. Lets say the game goes into overtime again, yet this time it's Bama that wins the game 9-6. Can you honestly crown Bama as National Champions in that scenario? The chances of that scenario happening could be one of the deciding factors in pushing an OSU, Stanford or VT ahead of Alabama. The legit argument of #1 having already been beaten by LSU, #2 not having won their conference and #3 not having even won their division, could very well keep Bama out of the NC game.
That being said, I can definetly understand the argument against the rematch. Lets say the game goes into overtime again, yet this time it's Bama that wins the game 9-6. Can you honestly crown Bama as National Champions in that scenario? The chances of that scenario happening could be one of the deciding factors in pushing an OSU, Stanford or VT ahead of Alabama. The legit argument of #1 having already been beaten by LSU, #2 not having won their conference and #3 not having even won their division, could very well keep Bama out of the NC game.
This post was edited on 11/27/11 at 12:16 am
Posted on 11/27/11 at 12:30 am to Tiger Ugly
quote:
Just like when Tennessee beat us in 2001 it was a regular season game and when we beat them it was the SEC Championship game...that cost them a shot at the national title game.
That is completely different...Tennessee is in a different division as LSU which is why we played them twice in one season. Bama is in our division. We would never play Bama, Arky, Auburn as a rematch in the SEC championship game. So basically the SEC would not find it fair for there to ever be a rematch between 2 SEC west teams (thus the tiebreaker rules in place) so why would the BCS ask that of a team?
Posted on 11/27/11 at 12:38 am to jonanthans
Funny to hear Lil' Nicky trotting out the "unbeaten in regulation" argument. Problem is, Gundy can say the same thing. Only it was on the road, and he has more wins over ranked teams and, possibly, a conference championship in an arguably tougher conference.
If OSU wins, the voters will have lots to think about next Saturday night. And Gundy will get to make the closing argument on College Football Final while Lil' Nicky sits at home.
If OSU wins, the voters will have lots to think about next Saturday night. And Gundy will get to make the closing argument on College Football Final while Lil' Nicky sits at home.
Posted on 11/27/11 at 12:48 am to RockChalkTiger
If the current push from ESPN that "Blama is in" continues then it is a done deal. Voters seem to be unduly influenced by the talking heads.
Posted on 11/27/11 at 12:57 am to LSU
quote:
I'm for a playoff also, but do you really think it wouldn't end up LSU vs. Alabama in a playoff this year? Yes, it's possible they could lose, but they're the 2 best teams in the country & deserve to play for the title.
Depending on how the playoffs would be set up, we would prob have to play them before the title game in most situations. So thats why i dont want a rematch. In the current system, that was the play off game. I want another 1 loss conference champion, a team that actually won their playoff game.
Page 3 of 5
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News