re: Miles/Payton

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Like you have never said anything rash following a loss.

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Certainly I have. Maybe not something that crazy, but certainly "rash" is accurate. Especially rash after the 2002 loss to Bama in Tiger Stadium (and will remain the last LSU-Bama game I will ever attend in person).

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Especially a loss to a team that is less talented (Kentucky or Arkansas 2007).

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True. And especially after a loss to UAB.

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Both times that season we lost when ranked #1.

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Good point, and absolutely accurate.

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Les has a problem motivating his players.

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However, he didn't seem to have trouble motivating them to achieve the #1 ranking THREE times that season (you did watch the BCS championship game between tOSU and LSU, didn't you?)

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For me that is clear cut.

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I'm sure it is.

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If they bounce back next year, then you can say that having a young QB was an issue and hopefully he will be able to recruit and develop that position better in the future.

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I can say it now. It's obvious and accurate.

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If the QB position shows no real improvement, then you have to blame coaching.

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We can certainly agree on this issue.

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They recruited and developed the players.

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Also true.

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I don't turn a blind eye to his weaknesses just because he is our coach.

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Good for you. I applaud your diligence and watchfulness, sir.

Coach C (also in the SEC)

8-3
9-3
10-2
12-0
9-3
13-1
9-4
13-1
13-1

Average wins 10.7 (taking out high and low)

Coach D (not coaching anymore, very similar to Les)

12-0
12-1
11-2
9-3
9-3
7-6

Average wins 10.25 (taking out high and low)

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Coach C (also in the SEC)

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Average wins 10.7 (taking out high and low)

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Coach D (not coaching anymore, very similar to Les)

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Average wins 10.25 (taking out high and low)

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I see what you did there. You're spinning it back around to me. So, Urban Meyer (who is winning more games than either Saban or Miles) IS good enough to coach in the SEC, but Larry Coker isn't. But Larry Coker was winning 10 1/4 games per year.

That's not good enough, but 8 2/3 IS good enough, IF it's a certain coach. But 9 wins (10.2 actually at LSU) ISN'T, if it's a certain coach.

Okay, I got it...? I think...? I'm not sure.

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Why are you hung up on Saban?

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I'm not. Many of the Miles haters are.

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LSU under Miles is two years removed from a Championship.

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But he should be fired?

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Saban just went to two straight SEC Champ games (winning 1) and a BCS Champ game (winning it). Just looking at the state of the programs, where would you want to be.

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Right now, the programs are roughly on the same level.

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I know this will be hard, but leave the coaches out of the equation.

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How is that possible when all we've heard for 5 years from the Miles haters is either or both of, "Saban rebuilt the program from nothing" (not true), and "Miles is winning with Saban's players"(technically he recruited a number of them, but the 2007 team had very little coaching or influence from the Saban era). Also, as both are now coaching in the SEC west, and Saban having won a championship at LSU, how is it even conceptually possible to leave the coaches out of it?

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Which program would you want LSU to look like?

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Like LSU, with LSU's traditions and history. The fact of the matter is, the "Miles Haters" have NO RATIONAL OBJECTIVE basis upon which to dislike Miles, other than "He's not Saban." At similar points in their careers, their objective accomplishments are nearly identical. Very nearly identical.

*Miles did get his first HC gig at a later age than did Saban, thus the 2 year age difference, but Saban's 7(?) additional years of head coaching.

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Which program would you want LSU to look like?




Like LSU, with LSU's traditions and history. The fact of the matter is, the "Miles Haters" have NO RATIONAL OBJECTIVE basis upon which to dislike Miles, other than "He's not Saban." At similar points in their careers, their objective accomplishments are nearly identical. Very nearly identical.

*Miles did get his first HC gig at a later age than did Saban, thus the 2 year age difference, but Saban's 7(?) additional years of head coaching.

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you didn't answer the question...

don't want to read thread but comparing Payton to Miles is an insult.

Payton calls plays.

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Payton calls plays.

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Payton is thought of as one of the best offensive minds in football...
as asked earlier, what exactly is Miles "strongpoint"?? does he have one??

I agree with you, the comparison is pretty stupid...

Les Miles is not like Sean Payton, yes Payton made a few gambles in the Super Bowl and Les has made a few in his career at LSU. That does not mean they have similar coaching styles in any way.

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What is your rational objective basis that Miles is a good coach that will be good for the program in the long run?

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Do I need to repeat them AGAIN? At the risk of having to do this in every thread on the Rant:

Consistently high recruiting classes (Objectively ranked by Scout/Rivals/ESPN)
-subjectively even graded highly by players who ultimately select other schools

BCS Championship (Objectively selected to play in game -sort of; Objectively won game against tOSU)

More wins faster than any coach in school history (Objectively; further objectively highest winning percentage, which levels him against coaches in the 10-12 game season eras.)

As for the long run, assuming he coaches in 2010, he's now the longest tenured coach since Mac, and, assuming he coaches at least 1 game in 2010, will be the 4th longest tenured coach in LSU history.

Winning lots of games (more than 10/year) over multiple seasons (5+) is at least an arguable basis to conclude he is good for the program over the long run.

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He has shown poor game management, questionable ability to spot character flaws in recruits, and not owning up to mistakes by throwing players under

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Every, single, big league coach exhibits these characteristics at one time or another. Human beings are, by nature, imperfect.

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That is just not true.

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We just have to disagree on this point.