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Posted on 11/18/14 at 1:38 pm to Sev09
Reposted for bottom of the page blues:
Soo... just playing devil's advocate here.
Mack Brown's 4 yrs after 1st national championship appearance (lost):
2010: 5-7 (2-6), not bowl eligible
2011: 8-5 (4-5), Won Holiday Bowl
2012: 9-4 (5-4), Won Alamo Bowl
2013: 8-5 (7-2), Lost Alamo Bowl
Les Miles' 4 yrs after 1st national championship appearance (won):
2008: 8-5 (3-5), Won Chick-fil-A Bowl
2009: 9-4 (5-3), Lost Cap One Bowl
2010: 11-2 (6-2), Won Cotton Bowl
2011: 13-1 (8-0), Lost BCS NC, SEC champs
Les Miles' 3 yrs after 2nd national championship appearance (lost):
2012: 10-3 (6-2), Lost Chick-fil-A Bowl
2013: 10-3 (5-3), Won Outback Bowl
2014: BEST CASE - 9-4 (4-4), Win mid-tier bowl
MIDDLE CASE - 8-5 (3-5), Win mid-tier bowl
WORST CASE - 7-6 (3-5), Lose mid to lower tier bowl
Miles is doing pretty well, when lined up with Mack's final years. One bad year and everyone heads for the hills... If I compared Miles' and Brown's recruiting classes over the same time period, it'd make you blush. Everyone just sit tight. We've expected this from before the season started.
Soo... just playing devil's advocate here.
Mack Brown's 4 yrs after 1st national championship appearance (lost):
2010: 5-7 (2-6), not bowl eligible
2011: 8-5 (4-5), Won Holiday Bowl
2012: 9-4 (5-4), Won Alamo Bowl
2013: 8-5 (7-2), Lost Alamo Bowl
Les Miles' 4 yrs after 1st national championship appearance (won):
2008: 8-5 (3-5), Won Chick-fil-A Bowl
2009: 9-4 (5-3), Lost Cap One Bowl
2010: 11-2 (6-2), Won Cotton Bowl
2011: 13-1 (8-0), Lost BCS NC, SEC champs
Les Miles' 3 yrs after 2nd national championship appearance (lost):
2012: 10-3 (6-2), Lost Chick-fil-A Bowl
2013: 10-3 (5-3), Won Outback Bowl
2014: BEST CASE - 9-4 (4-4), Win mid-tier bowl
MIDDLE CASE - 8-5 (3-5), Win mid-tier bowl
WORST CASE - 7-6 (3-5), Lose mid to lower tier bowl
Miles is doing pretty well, when lined up with Mack's final years. One bad year and everyone heads for the hills... If I compared Miles' and Brown's recruiting classes over the same time period, it'd make you blush. Everyone just sit tight. We've expected this from before the season started.
Posted on 11/18/14 at 2:17 pm to stho381
quote:
Agree except for one major difference. Texas's recruiting practices hurt them. They locked up their classes way too early and they basically pulled scholarships from those commits who still wanted to take visits.
Recruiting is the only reason Miles is still around. His game management is pitiful compared to coaches at his pay grade, and his desired offensive scheme is archaic, boring, and starting to not be successful. He's been able to hire very good assistants to hide his flaws as a coach.
That said, he is a likeable person and the face of the LSU program. It will be hard to replace that, but if this slide into mediocrity continues next year with all the talent on the roster, then a difficult decision will need to be made for the sake of the program.
Very good post. I think Miles will be given three seasons....let's say we lose to TAMU and end the regular season at 7-5. If we have a similar season next year, he will be given one more year to right the ship. So, we will have to endure at least three more seasons with him as the HC.
He has had too many good seasons to crap can him after two mediocre seasons. If we crap can him after two years, then we look irrational as fans and as an administration. What coach would want to walk into a program that is quick on the trigger to fire a coach?
I'm not a Miles fan....I firmly believe he is a fair to good coach that benefits from a university that recruits itself. He sure as hell isn't going to out game plan or outscheme an opponent. He wins solely based off of the talent gap between LSU and our opponents. If we had an intelligent, forward thinking coach that would maximize the offensive talent that we get....holy shite, watch out.
What we have is someone that is woefully predictable on offense, and refuses to adapt or change. You can't be one dimensional in today's game and expect to win big. We can usually pull off nine-ten win seasons (usually) every year as mentioned above even with our knuckle dragging offense. If we had the right coach the win totals would be closer to 11-12 wins per year (including the bowl game). We recruit the talent every year to be a Top 5 program. We just need a Top 5 coach to accompany said talent.
Posted on 11/18/14 at 2:25 pm to LateArrivalforLSU
In 3 years post championship game
Mack 3-10 v ranked teams
Miles 8-7 v ranked teams
LSU IS NOT IN TEXAS TERRITORY
Mack 3-10 v ranked teams
Miles 8-7 v ranked teams
LSU IS NOT IN TEXAS TERRITORY
Posted on 11/18/14 at 2:44 pm to barry
Just focusing on Mack at the very end or ignoring Miles' slide after 07' doesn't tell the whole story.
13-0 (Won BCSCG)---- 12-2 (Won BCSCG)
10-3 (Won Alamo Bowl)---- 8-5 (Won Chick Bowl)
10-3 (Won Holiday Bowl)---- 9-4 (Loss Cap 1 Bowl)
12-1 (Won Fiesta Bowl)---- 11-2 (Won Cotton Bowl)
13-1 (BCSCG Loss)---- 13-1 (Lost BCSCG)
5-7 (No Bowl)---- 10-3 (Lost Chick Bowl)
8-5 (Won Holiday Bowl)---- 10-3 (Won Outback Bowl)
9-4 (Won Alamo Bowl)---- 7-4 ( Could be 8-4 or 7-5)
8-5 (Lost Alamo bowl)---- 2015??
I think they are pretty comparable coaches. Les plays in a tougher conference but Les has also pulled a few of those wins out of his arse. We'll see what happens.
13-0 (Won BCSCG)---- 12-2 (Won BCSCG)
10-3 (Won Alamo Bowl)---- 8-5 (Won Chick Bowl)
10-3 (Won Holiday Bowl)---- 9-4 (Loss Cap 1 Bowl)
12-1 (Won Fiesta Bowl)---- 11-2 (Won Cotton Bowl)
13-1 (BCSCG Loss)---- 13-1 (Lost BCSCG)
5-7 (No Bowl)---- 10-3 (Lost Chick Bowl)
8-5 (Won Holiday Bowl)---- 10-3 (Won Outback Bowl)
9-4 (Won Alamo Bowl)---- 7-4 ( Could be 8-4 or 7-5)
8-5 (Lost Alamo bowl)---- 2015??
I think they are pretty comparable coaches. Les plays in a tougher conference but Les has also pulled a few of those wins out of his arse. We'll see what happens.
This post was edited on 11/18/14 at 2:46 pm
Posted on 11/18/14 at 3:29 pm to la_birdman
quote:
I don't want to see Miles fired. The man can recruit with the best.
Except at quarterback, which is only the most important position on the field. Coaching is more than Xs and Os, but it's also more than recruiting. If you can't fully develop recruits, especially at the most important position on the field, then you can take the recruiting rankings and start a nice fire with them tonight.
Posted on 11/18/14 at 3:40 pm to nm1230
quote:
but Les has also pulled a few of those wins out of his arse.
You can say that after 2 years. Its not luck after 10 years.
Posted on 11/18/14 at 3:56 pm to josh336
quote:
Recruiting louisiana hasn't and wont be a problem for anyone competent.
To be fair to Les, the state was down for years at the beginning of his tenure. We had to recruit oos.
2005 was the last time a qb from LA was drafted. And that was that Stefan lefors guy.
Hs here puts their best athlete at qb. Doucet, Claiborne, randle and magee are just a few of many off the top of my head.
Posted on 11/18/14 at 4:01 pm to LateArrivalforLSU
quote:
I firmly believe he is a fair to good coach that benefits from a university that recruits itself
In 2004 before saban left, this university that recruits itself had 8 commitments. We finished with 5 more after we hired Les. One being RP, a guy from LA that was on his way to UT.
No, it doesn't recruit itself. Louisiana isn't going to produce 20-25 players every year at positions of need. At least not ones good enough to compete.
Les was able to get guys to come here with one month on the job. Saban had years to recruit these guys to LSU and still couldn't.
This post was edited on 11/18/14 at 4:04 pm
Posted on 11/18/14 at 10:53 pm to Sev09
quote:
Soo... just playing devil's advocate here.
Mack Brown's 4 yrs after 1st national championship appearance (lost):
2010: 5-7 (2-6), not bowl eligible
2011: 8-5 (4-5), Won Holiday Bowl
2012: 9-4 (5-4), Won Alamo Bowl
2013: 8-5 (7-2), Lost Alamo Bowl
Les Miles' 4 yrs after 1st national championship appearance (won):
2008: 8-5 (3-5), Won Chick-fil-A Bowl
2009: 9-4 (5-3), Lost Cap One Bowl
2010: 11-2 (6-2), Won Cotton Bowl
2011: 13-1 (8-0), Lost BCS NC, SEC champs
Les Miles' 3 yrs after 2nd national championship appearance (lost):
2012: 10-3 (6-2), Lost Chick-fil-A Bowl
2013: 10-3 (5-3), Won Outback Bowl
2014: BEST CASE - 9-4 (4-4), Win mid-tier bowl
MIDDLE CASE - 8-5 (3-5), Win mid-tier bowl
WORST CASE - 7-6 (3-5), Lose mid to lower tier bowl
Miles is doing pretty well, when lined up with Mack's final years. One bad year and everyone heads for the hills... If I compared Miles' and Brown's recruiting classes over the same time period, it'd make you blush. Everyone just sit tight. We've expected this from before the season started.
This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ is the voice of reason.
Posted on 11/18/14 at 10:58 pm to dbbuilder79
I agree with the Mack Brown analogy. The one difference between them is that Mack forgot about coaching and spent too much time working the big time alums on the fund raising side. I've never heard much about Les in that role.
Posted on 11/19/14 at 12:57 am to Katy Tiger
How is coach miles an coach brown on a similar coaching course. Mack was horrible in his last 2 yrs at texas. Les is a consistent qb away from a 10 to 11 win team again. His choices consistent of a sophomore an a true freshmen. Mack had issues with players an staff but he just wasn't the same coach after that natl championship game vs. Alabama.
Posted on 11/19/14 at 6:51 am to josh336
quote:
Recruiting louisiana hasn't and wont be a problem for anyone competent.
In that case, we have only had three "competent" coaches since 1960 - Arnsparger, Saban and Miles - and you want to fire one of them.
Do you think this is what arrogant Florida fans said when they hired Muschamp? He was certainly considered competent.
Posted on 11/19/14 at 5:15 pm to lsupride87
What makes you so sure we could find a competent coach.....Florida says hi....Michigan says Hi......Tenn says Hi......USC says hi and so on and so forth.
Posted on 11/19/14 at 5:17 pm to dbbuilder79
quote:
How long will it be until the powers that be notice that Miles is starting the same trend.
Until after he leaves
Posted on 11/19/14 at 5:24 pm to lsualum96
quote:
2012 and 2013 were both 10-3 seasons. That's hardly a decline.
True but still average. if LSU went 10-3 every season I would still be pissed knowing the potential of this program. The point is that since 2011 this program is average at best and that's unacceptable.
Posted on 11/19/14 at 5:34 pm to Sev09
I like how Sev09 kindly ignores the actual first appearance in a title game by UT in 2005.
Next season, Les will be in the same position as Mack was timewise from his first NC (win) and 2nd NC (loss) with similar results.
People love to forget how bad the SEC was in 2012, especially the West.
Arky? Down.
Auburn? way down.
MSU? mediocre.
A&M? Not bad, but nothing special outside of Bama win.
Ole Miss?
It was nothing like its turning into and all the other teams are on the upswing.
Similar thing happened in the Big XII. UT was drifting and other teams were coming up including Baylor, Okie State, etc.
Forgive me if I don't see much difference between 9-4 and 10-3 though since they played 1 more FBS team than LSU annually given they played a 9 game conference schedule and an actual FBS and even an equal level opponent like BYU in those years.
Next season, Les will be in the same position as Mack was timewise from his first NC (win) and 2nd NC (loss) with similar results.
People love to forget how bad the SEC was in 2012, especially the West.
Arky? Down.
Auburn? way down.
MSU? mediocre.
A&M? Not bad, but nothing special outside of Bama win.
Ole Miss?
It was nothing like its turning into and all the other teams are on the upswing.
Similar thing happened in the Big XII. UT was drifting and other teams were coming up including Baylor, Okie State, etc.
Forgive me if I don't see much difference between 9-4 and 10-3 though since they played 1 more FBS team than LSU annually given they played a 9 game conference schedule and an actual FBS and even an equal level opponent like BYU in those years.
Posted on 11/19/14 at 5:48 pm to dbbuilder79
Miles is not going anywhere. He will likely dominate an inferior opponent in his bowl game, be 8-5 or 9-4 and save his arse from the hot seat.
Next year he will be 8-4+ again with a big victory over Moo State, Ole Miss, Auburn, or Alabama and save his job again.
Miles will be at LSU as long as he is winning 7-8 games + per season.
The powers that be will not "wake up" until Miles loses to New Mexico State or something similar (struggling against them this year in the first half was not enough).
Next year he will be 8-4+ again with a big victory over Moo State, Ole Miss, Auburn, or Alabama and save his job again.
Miles will be at LSU as long as he is winning 7-8 games + per season.
The powers that be will not "wake up" until Miles loses to New Mexico State or something similar (struggling against them this year in the first half was not enough).
Posted on 11/19/14 at 5:50 pm to adam32
quote:
How is coach miles an coach brown on a similar coaching course. Mack was horrible in his last 2 yrs at texas. Les is a consistent qb away from a 10 to 11 win team again. His choices consistent of a sophomore an a true freshmen. Mack had issues with players an staff but he just wasn't the same coach after that natl championship game vs. Alabama
I think the point of the post was that LSU should not let it get to the point of Miles' being horrible his last 2 years.
Posted on 11/19/14 at 6:24 pm to josh336
quote:
Recruiting louisiana hasn't and wont be a problem for anyone competent
you have no idea how hard it is. the world isn't the same anymore. young kids leave the state a lot. Louisiana is NOT a large enough state to produce 25 elite athletes every year that will go to the state u.
without top notch out of state recruiting LSU will not compete for championships. fact.
the head football coach is the single most important factor in the success of the team. no other factor is close. it has to be a homerun hire.
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