LSU Basketball - The Halfcourt Offense Myth | TigerDroppings.com
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FamousAmos
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Member since Feb 2010
2770 posts

LSU Basketball - The Halfcourt Offense Myth

CLIFF NOTES: Our offense is much more active than given credit and uses a variety of screens, cuts, pick n rolls, and penetrations. It's not all just standing around and shooting threes.

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LSU’s current offense is a much faster, high scoring offense compared to previous years. So far, it has managed to average 9 more points per game, shoot a higher 3 point percentage, shoot better from the field and create more assist.
However, since going on a recent skid, some have begun to question the half court offense with quotes such as these:

quote:

What screens, cuts, and dribble penetration? The half court offense still looks mostly like last year; teams packing the lane leading to lots of dribbling and passing around the perimeter, then jack up a 3


quote:

This team runs no offense just like trent. All we do is shoot 3 after 3.
Not impressed with CJJ at all.


So, I took a notepad to the South Carolina game to take notes on just how active our half court offense was. Note: “Screens” denotes the player coming off a screen, with or without ball. “Cuts” denotes the player cutting to or away from the basket in an attempt to get open. "Penetrations" denote a player successfully driving toward the basket, causing the opponents help defense to rotate over. I only noted our activity in the half court, disregarding fast breaks. Also, I only noted regulation to give a more realistic picture of the typical game.

LSU’s Half-Court Offense
Penetrations – 19
Cuts - 15
Screens – 8

Activity by Player
Penetrations
Stringer – 5
Hickey – 6
JOB – 2
Coleman – 2
Carmouche 3

Screens
Hickey – 4
Carmouche – 2
Collins – 1
JOB – 1

Cuts
Morgan – 6
Stringer - 3
Carmouche – 1
Hickey – 3
JOB – 2

Note: These numbers are slightly lower than reality as I'm not able to benefit from re-watching the entire game on Geaux Zone, and these observations were during live action. It is quite possible I missed some half-court activity.

Analysis

When you look at this number in light of our fast break attempts and semi-fast break possessions where we took early open shots, and our turnover numbers, we really only had about 25 or so half court possesions. With that in mind it appears that our half-court is fairly active. In my observations, the only time we would simply pass the ball around the perimeter was against the zone when looking to break it with an open three, which is textbook basketball. Not surprisingly, the two most active players on the court were Hickey and Stringer, with the offense running through them. I also saw play rotations, such as Morgan and Stringer making dual cuts to either wing) but decided not to add these for the sake of clarity.

There was a moment late in the 2nd half when CJJ seemed to go to an iso offense, leaving the ball in the hands of his best player (Hickey) who was putting up the team high in points. Whether it was the best move is debatable, but until that point the half-court offense had been active. It will be interesting to see how much more active we become next season when have more depth.

In my opinion, the problem is not the half-court strategy but rather the execution at times. Not having players that can finish at the rim in crucial situations, not having the post presence (with JOB usually in foul trouble) to get those high percentage shots, and not knocking down open threes when it counts much bigger issues than the half court sets we run. We are in a situation where we HAVE to attempt to play fast, and take the first open shot or penetration, because realistically there isn't much else there.

This post was edited on 1/17 at 6:17 pm



mba29124
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2009
289 posts

re: LSU Basketball - The Halfcourt Offense Myth
Seems like a lot of work for no response.


Hat Tricks
LSU Fan
Natchitoches, LA
Member since Oct 2003
22489 posts

re: LSU Basketball - The Halfcourt Offense Myth
So in conclusion, we suck. Thanks.


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FamousAmos
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2010
2770 posts

re: LSU Basketball - The Halfcourt Offense Myth
quote:

Seems like a lot of work for no response.


Agreed


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SouthOfSouth
LSU Fan
South of I-10 till I die
Member since Jun 2008
38691 posts

re: LSU Basketball - The Halfcourt Offense Myth
I was one of the few that thought the offense did a lot better last night against the zone. I saw ball movement, penetration, and open looks much more than in any other game this year. Your analysis definitely concludes the same. I appreciate your work!


FamousAmos
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2010
2770 posts

re: LSU Basketball - The Halfcourt Offense Myth


Just trying to bring some objective analysis to LSU basketball like you


T-mart57
LSU Fan
Lex vegas
Member since Jan 2013
545 posts

re: LSU Basketball - The Halfcourt Offense Myth
I like these statistics. And I liked the ball movement when they had the zone but it seemed like the players hesitated to drive sometimes. I'm glad you noted this I was actually thinking of rewatching it to see some of the schemes CJJ had.


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NOLAtoChiTwn
Michigan
Member since Nov 2008
363 posts

re: LSU Basketball - The Halfcourt Offense Myth
Where was AD in all of this? Probably hanging around the paint. But he should be always thinking and preoccupied with beating somebody for position. Yeah,holding position is tough for slender type body, but what he has to do his Swat REAL Low, because they are using/pushing his upper body to move his feet from the position he's trying to hold.Swatting low also stops them from moving forward toward the rim. And also he should try to keep the ball live by tapping it up ,if he cant get position, but position should ALWAYS be on his mind. This was Dennis Rodmans mentality. This could get him somewhere until learns the game.


GeauxGus
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2005
5219 posts

re: LSU Basketball - The Halfcourt Offense Myth
...WAYYY tl/dr , my goodness


tgr4ever
LSU Fan
Atlanta
Member since Jul 2011
11531 posts
Online

re: LSU Basketball - The Halfcourt Offense Myth


If JJ keeps up the recruiting, can you imagine how good we will be in 4 years? :fap:
This post was edited on 1/17 at 6:17 pm


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FamousAmos
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2010
2770 posts

re: LSU Basketball - The Halfcourt Offense Myth
quote:

Where was AD in all of this? Probably hanging around the paint.


Actually, yes. He was really awkward at setting screens, the few he did attempt. And he did fight for position but as you said, its really tough for him down there.

quote:

If he cant get position, but position should ALWAYS be on his mind. This was Dennis Rodmans mentality. This could get him somewhere until learns the game.


I agree with you. Its still a work in progress. He gets really confused with ball movement and against motion sets, and teams have figured that out. Still hustles hard though, as out of position as he may be at times.


FamousAmos
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2010
2770 posts

re: LSU Basketball - The Halfcourt Offense Myth
I added a cliff notes


tgr4ever
LSU Fan
Atlanta
Member since Jul 2011
11531 posts
Online

re: LSU Basketball - The Halfcourt Offense Myth
I hope that he can get another year of eligibility. He deserves it.


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jdrn21
LSU Fan
Ole Piss sucks
Member since Aug 2005
9621 posts

re: LSU Basketball - The Halfcourt Offense Myth
Great post man. Thanks. People hate real info here. I don't. Nice work


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Tiger Ugly
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2008
4874 posts

re: LSU Basketball - The Halfcourt Offense Myth
Don't confuse activity with achievment.

I noticed a vague understanding of what to do against zone but a hesitance to do what needed to be done.

And against man I noticed we ran alot of the same high post screen sets that USC ran but they seemed to run it with alot more sense of purpose and success than IMHO we did.

And they like us have a first year coach and comparable talent and the game was in our gym.

I need to see more than what I've seen of late to give us the benefit of the doubt on our half court offense.

The end result against comparable talent in Auburn and USC speaks louder to me than the fact that we have some peripheral movement and obligatory screening.


FamousAmos
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2010
2770 posts

re: LSU Basketball - The Halfcourt Offense Myth
Not debating that it's not ran with as much efficiency as we'd like to see, and it does come off at times that players are as timid and tight as they were under Trent. But that's not really what this thread was about.


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Britgirl
LSU Fan
Ascension
Member since Jan 2013
719 posts

re: LSU Basketball - The Halfcourt Offense Myth
quote:

I noticed a vague understanding of what to do against zone but a hesitance to do what needed to be done.


quote:


And against man I noticed we ran alot of the same high post screen sets that USC ran but they seemed to run it with alot more sense of purpose


I don't know if anyone else noticed, but at times Hickey just seemed tentative at running the point. When he made some threes and lay-ups and got the crowd pumped he livened up, but overall I think he was a bit sub-par.
Maybe even he gets fed-up that with all his feeds/passes going nowhere except clanging off the rim, and his patient waiting for play set-up only to have the wrong guy in the wrong position as seconds wind down!

I just felt that Anthony wasn't on his game last night. I know he had some good stats, but he had 4 or 5 turnovers, which is really uncharacteristic. He has a good assist to turnover ratio up to now.

I think Ellington got in his head to some degree, because Ellington was just as fast and probably more agile. I don't think Anthony has faced anyone that mirrored his abilities and style as Ellington did, for a long time, if ever. It was difficult to press against him (Ellington) and the SC collapsing defense.
I think that's why Johnny didn't go to the press.

And playing with 4 fouls (some of them really stupid calls, but don't get me started on the refereeing) cramps his style. He can't be as aggressive, steals are gonna be called fouls.

Game loss isn't on Anthony, he played well in other ways. But I think Ellington and foul troubles took his game away last night.

When our "general" is a little low, our half court offense is too. There's no else to run it.

Great analysis Amos!



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