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Started By
Message
Les really let the program slide
Posted on 7/7/18 at 5:01 am
Posted on 7/7/18 at 5:01 am
Maybe not as bad as Mack Brown did Texas, but seeing Orgeron, Aranda, and Raymond have to pick up the pieces on defense still leaves me wondering what happened to Les.
I've seen so many posts over the last few years talking about how terrible Chavis and Brick Haley did in recruiting and developing the defense and the DL in particular, all valid points, but there was never as much criticism aimed towards Les for the recruiting woes and staff performance as most of the blame he got was directed towards the offensive inefficiencies.
Les was always lauded as a great recruiter but he really did a pretty bad job of keeping the talent and depth where it needed to be along the DL.
Since Orgeron became DL coach he's landed
2015
Arden Key (only a few weeks after getting the job)
2016
Rashard Lawrence
Ed Alexander
Glen Logan
Andre Anthony
2017
K'Lavon Chaisson
Tyler Shelvin
Neil Farrell
Justin Thomas
2018
Jarell Cherry
Chasen Hines
Travez Moore
Davin Cotton
Dare Rosenthal
Nelson Jenkins
Dominic Livingston
Dantrieze Scott
Now go back and look at the classes under Les/Chavis
2012
Danielle Hunter (that was the entire DL haul)
2013
Frank Herron
Greg Gilmore
Tashawn Bower
Christian LaCouture
Maquedius Bain*
Michael Patterson
Lewis Neal
2014
Davon Godchaux
Deondre Clark
Sione Teuhema*
Trey Lealaimatafao*
Travonte Valentine*
2015
Arden Key
Isaiah Washington*
Look how uneven the recruiting and development was from year to year under Les. Some complete misses and several players who left the program entirely. Now think about the last few years and how bad the DL play has been. LSU went from DLU to getting gashed on the ground against Miss State, Auburn, Bama, etc. Add to that LSU's problems generating offense and it's really eye opening how far the program slipped during Miles' final years. LSU went from perennial title contender with elite defense to borderline top 20 team even with all the superstars at RB, WR, and DB.
Anyways, just a few observations of mine. Really like what Orgeron and Aranda have done with the DL and I'm also very excited to see the 2018 linebacker group as well. Devin White, Jacob Phillips, Tyler Taylor and the rest of the group are going to be a fun bunch to watch this year.
I've seen so many posts over the last few years talking about how terrible Chavis and Brick Haley did in recruiting and developing the defense and the DL in particular, all valid points, but there was never as much criticism aimed towards Les for the recruiting woes and staff performance as most of the blame he got was directed towards the offensive inefficiencies.
Les was always lauded as a great recruiter but he really did a pretty bad job of keeping the talent and depth where it needed to be along the DL.
Since Orgeron became DL coach he's landed
2015
Arden Key (only a few weeks after getting the job)
2016
Rashard Lawrence
Ed Alexander
Glen Logan
Andre Anthony
2017
K'Lavon Chaisson
Tyler Shelvin
Neil Farrell
Justin Thomas
2018
Jarell Cherry
Chasen Hines
Travez Moore
Davin Cotton
Dare Rosenthal
Nelson Jenkins
Dominic Livingston
Dantrieze Scott
Now go back and look at the classes under Les/Chavis
2012
Danielle Hunter (that was the entire DL haul)
2013
Frank Herron
Greg Gilmore
Tashawn Bower
Christian LaCouture
Maquedius Bain*
Michael Patterson
Lewis Neal
2014
Davon Godchaux
Deondre Clark
Sione Teuhema*
Trey Lealaimatafao*
Travonte Valentine*
2015
Arden Key
Isaiah Washington*
Look how uneven the recruiting and development was from year to year under Les. Some complete misses and several players who left the program entirely. Now think about the last few years and how bad the DL play has been. LSU went from DLU to getting gashed on the ground against Miss State, Auburn, Bama, etc. Add to that LSU's problems generating offense and it's really eye opening how far the program slipped during Miles' final years. LSU went from perennial title contender with elite defense to borderline top 20 team even with all the superstars at RB, WR, and DB.
Anyways, just a few observations of mine. Really like what Orgeron and Aranda have done with the DL and I'm also very excited to see the 2018 linebacker group as well. Devin White, Jacob Phillips, Tyler Taylor and the rest of the group are going to be a fun bunch to watch this year.
45
Posted on 7/7/18 at 5:10 am to JustLivinTheDream
It is true. But you know you got some o hating and les loving mfs in here that will spin it...watch.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 5:14 am to JustLivinTheDream
quote:
I've seen so many posts over the last few years talking about how terrible Chavis and Brick Haley did in recruiting and developing the defense and the DL in particular, all valid points, but there was never as much criticism aimed towards Les
quote:
Since Orgeron became DL coach he’s landed
Posted on 7/7/18 at 5:16 am to JustLivinTheDream
Maybe wait until we see these kids play before making judgement
Posted on 7/7/18 at 5:19 am to Tiger Voodoo
I see the new propaganda talking point is the rebuild.
Sure hope we can point to good results one day.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 5:20 am to JustLivinTheDream
DR;DV
Posted on 7/7/18 at 5:20 am to JustLivinTheDream
I've been told that the recruiting coordinator only recruits the players that the head coach tells him to and that Coach O can't be blamed for the lack of talent in the trenches. So, that would mean over half of your list that your crediting O for were also recruited because of Miles.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 5:29 am to JustLivinTheDream
Appreciate the attempt and your analysis. I do think you have to give Les credit for the guys recruited in 2016 as it was on his watch.
In general terms, the program was sliding with more misses and a sense we were not as good in the trenches on both sides of the ball.
I do like that O appears to get that trenches aspect, but for me I gotta see more on field success and the jury remains out on him with his track record.
In general terms, the program was sliding with more misses and a sense we were not as good in the trenches on both sides of the ball.
I do like that O appears to get that trenches aspect, but for me I gotta see more on field success and the jury remains out on him with his track record.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 5:33 am to TigerLunatik
quote:
I've been told that the recruiting coordinator only recruits the players that the head coach tells him to and that Coach O can't be blamed for the lack of talent in the trenches. So, that would mean over half of your list that your crediting O for were also recruited because of Miles.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 5:43 am to justice
I don't really follow recruiting enough to know just how the head coach/recruiting coordinator thing works. But, it seems as they both deserve some credit from the time O was named RC to the 2017 signing day. I still say the most impressive thing O has done since being promoted is keeping that '17 class together. But, Miles must have had a lot of input before he was fired.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 5:51 am to Aussietigerfan
quote:
Maybe wait until we see these kids play before making judgement
Key, Lawrence, and Alexander I'd say have been as advertised. But I'll leave the Key stuff alone because I know a lot of people are sort of down on him because of his last year at LSU.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 5:58 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:
I see the new propaganda talking point is the rebuild.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 6:05 am to TigerLunatik
So 4/17 equals half?
I don't think anyone disputes that key was a get due to O.
I'll give you the entire 2016 class, although we know that O had input.
The numbers don't lie. I don't care who the head coach is now, I'd say the same thing. A trouble area is being addressed. Taking one dl a year a couple times is insane.
Some would think this is a good trend for lsu, since big boy football is won in the trenches. Sadly, there are those who will refuse anything positive O.
I don't think anyone disputes that key was a get due to O.
I'll give you the entire 2016 class, although we know that O had input.
The numbers don't lie. I don't care who the head coach is now, I'd say the same thing. A trouble area is being addressed. Taking one dl a year a couple times is insane.
Some would think this is a good trend for lsu, since big boy football is won in the trenches. Sadly, there are those who will refuse anything positive O.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 6:09 am to weptiger
This here is a very good post. It is honestly how most of us so called positigers think. The direction certainly appears to be up, but let's see how it plays out. Sadly, there are some that hate the guy so much that they will not give him an ounce of credit.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 6:10 am to Pensacolatgr
I was actually trying to credit both. IF what I was told was true, then the following guys were identified by Miles as head coach since he was head coach at the beginning of the recruiting cycle in the 2016 season:
2015
Arden Key (only a few weeks after getting the job)
2016
Rashard Lawrence
Ed Alexander
Glen Logan
Andre Anthony
2017
K'Lavon Chaisson
Tyler Shelvin
Neil Farrell
Justin Thomas
That's half of the list in the OP.
2015
Arden Key (only a few weeks after getting the job)
2016
Rashard Lawrence
Ed Alexander
Glen Logan
Andre Anthony
2017
K'Lavon Chaisson
Tyler Shelvin
Neil Farrell
Justin Thomas
That's half of the list in the OP.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 6:11 am to JustLivinTheDream
Getting tired of the "Les Miles did this" and "Ed O's doing that" threads.
The recruiting was geared towards schemes. Chavis famously wanted smaller, faster defenders that swarmed to the ball. The DE's were basically OLBs. We wouldn't have played a lot of big mashers, so they weren't priority recruits.
It wasn't that way before him, and since Aranda came, we've been getting bigger men.
The recruiting was geared towards schemes. Chavis famously wanted smaller, faster defenders that swarmed to the ball. The DE's were basically OLBs. We wouldn't have played a lot of big mashers, so they weren't priority recruits.
It wasn't that way before him, and since Aranda came, we've been getting bigger men.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 6:14 am to Pensacolatgr
quote:yea saying they are the underdog in four games really sounds like you have a lot of confidence in the coaching staff and team.
they will not give him an ounce of credit.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 6:24 am to Pensacolatgr
quote:
Sadly, there are those who will refuse anything positive O.
It's not so much Orgeron versus how badly Miles and his staff (Chavis, Brick, Kevin Steele bolting after one year although LSU did land Aranda) left the front seven in bad shape. Aranda has done fantastic as DC but he's had his fair share of bad performances as well, mostly attributed to zero depth and a serious lack of development under Miles' watch.
I'm being pretty objective here. I can say some objective bad things about Orgeron as well:
1. He was a shite hire
2. His handling of the Matt Canada situation will probably be his downfall and reason he's fired
LSU defense is getting back to a level we haven't seen since 2012, which was really the last legitimate championship caliber team we saw under Les.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 6:27 am to TigerLunatik
quote:
I still say the most impressive thing O has done since being promoted is keeping that '17 class together.
That was pretty impressive! I loved Miles in many regards. When CEO took over in the interim we all knew it was time for the most part. The fans wanted blood and rightfully so in many aspects. CEO did a respectable job concerning the interim season and kept the team pointed in the right direction. There for a minute it looked like that recruiting class was going to unravel, same as his 1st official season with LSU until the second quarter of the Auburn game. He put together a nice class adding depth where we need it. Hope LSU can make a run.
Posted on 7/7/18 at 6:32 am to JustLivinTheDream
quote:So with this timeline you're accepting Orgeron's involvement in the famous decline in D depth for 2017?
but seeing Orgeron, Aranda, and Raymond have to pick up the pieces on defense
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