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Message
re: "Johnny Jones will eventially get us there"
Posted on 3/15/14 at 8:45 pm to Hat Tricks
Posted on 3/15/14 at 8:45 pm to Hat Tricks
quote:
It means people should chill the frick out until he at least has his own players in here.
The majority of the roster is his own players
1
Posted on 3/15/14 at 8:55 pm to c on z
quote:
The majority of the roster is his own players
Hickey
Stringer
Love both of the guys but it is certainly true they are both undersized. Maybe that gets corrected with Hornsby and Gray.
JOB3
Obviously this one doesn't really "hurt" Johnny Jones. He's the best player on the team and the only great recruit TJ ever had. But he's still a leftover from TJ.
Coleman - recruited by Trent Johnson
Malik Morgan - recruited by Trent Johnson
Shane Hammink - recruited by Trent Johnson
Far from the majority of the roster.
This post was edited on 3/15/14 at 9:02 pm
Posted on 3/16/14 at 7:05 am to HonoraryCoonass
I would say repeating the success of Dale Browns days as a coach would fit the shoes. He was given a longer leash though as B-ball at LSU had never been a sport worthy of getting concerned with when he started. When he got it going was in his fifth year with the games against Kentucky becoming interesting bouts.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 7:24 am to HonoraryCoonass
He will.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 8:00 am to Bloodworth
quote:
He should be gone after next season if they don't show improvement. Major improvement.
And potentially lose arguably the biggest recruit LSU has had since the Final Four run? Nah, don't think so. He'll get through the 2015-16 year for sure
Posted on 3/16/14 at 8:31 am to munchman
quote:. JJ is handicapped with the in ability to coach. Other than that he's great!
JJ is handicapped with two extremely undersized guards.....he is in the process of fixing that with recruiting.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 8:35 am to BayouBengal99
quote:
Wtf are you talking about?? It takes time to implement your game and get these kids going Jesus Christ?? This team is getting better and better not worse and that's good enough for me at the moment. He's recruiting better than anyone has in 10 plus years people like you need to go beat a light pole or something! Your not a Tiger fan that's for sure! This years with last years recruiting class will be pretty good. CHILL!!! I hope to god no one listens to you!!!!
Take the LSU off the jersey. It appears to be blinding your perception of reality when talking about THIS particular team, and the job done by the staff THIS season.
If someone told you that "Team A" was returning:
4 starters which included
1 All Conf player
1 all conf defensive player
A guy who was top 5 in the league in 3pt%
Plus, to that group you added a top 10 freshman class. All of that in a very avg to bad conference.
I would think most rational people would say that Team A would likely make the NCAA Tournament. But if not, at least improve their record from last season. Neither of which happened this year for LSU.
But hey, it takes time to grow. It takes time to implement basic defensive fundamentals to prevent opponents from driving to the basket uncontested possession after possession, game after game. Or to teach guys to close out on shooters to at least get a hand in a guys face. It takes time to develop an offense that isn't stagnant in the half court and completely reliant on getting the ball to one post player. It's hard to adjust throughout the year to find favorable matchups when that one post player gets doubled every time he touched the ball all season long. It's hard to figure out that it might be a good idea to have your 6'9" athletic 3 attack the basket with consistency, instead of just allow him to essentially be a below avg 3 point shooter. How long should it take to grow? Though i may not be a "real Tiger basketball fan" I did find a way to catch every minute of every game this season, and the same issues that were present in game one were there in game 33.
I got news for you. The next group of new players coming in, as a whole, aren't game changers. Nor should they be expected to be. Gray is the only guy who can be looked at as a impact player. The other 3 are athletic, but projects who need significant development.
No one is saying that Jones should be fired today, or that he isn't recruiting much better than his predecessor. But the fact remains that he had a team this year who was very capable of making some noise in the SEC, and he did nothing to improve upon last year's results.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 9:07 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
While the sarcasm is noted. one recruiting year can greatly improve a team from one year to the next. Building a program takes time.
The face of college bb has changed so much, there is no such thing as building a program anymore. You don't build programs to be successful you have to reload every year, you hope to get lucky and have guys stick around.
Although this years team truly did under perform and should have done better, there is enough talent on this team to at least make the tourney. CJJ needs to get a bench coach which was truly a problem this year. His recruiting skills are fine he just needs help game coaching which at times this year was puzzling.
I agree another season like this one, his seat could get a little warm next year at this time. The upside of this is that it 1000% of what we had with Trent Johnson.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 9:21 am to Alt26
quote:
I got news for you. The next group of new players coming in, as a whole, aren't game changers. Nor should they be expected to be. Gray is the only guy who can be looked at as a impact player. The other 3 are athletic, but projects who need significant development.
Yeah, I think we can learn from this past year insofar as counting too much on players unproven at this level.
Epps and the overweight 7-footer, I don't see getting much from them next year.
As for the transfers, I think folks are really pimping Hornsby. I know he averaged 14-15 a game at North Carolina A&T, but I remember the kid we got from Marquette a few years back who averaged 12 points a game there, a significantly higher level, and he was terrible. So let's not put too much on the kid.
Gray will almost unquestionably brings scoring, but JUCO kids aren't exactly known for defense, and from what I've seen from this staff, coaching them up on defense is not one of their strengths.
quote:
No one is saying that Jones should be fired today, or that he isn't recruiting much better than his predecessor. But the fact remains that he had a team this year who was very capable of making some noise in the SEC, and he did nothing to improve upon last year's results.
Everyone likes Johnny. We all want him to succeed, and he will get a fair chance and maybe more given who he is and who is behind him. So regardless of the premature calls for putting him on the hot seat by a few, that's not going to be an issue.
But to say any questions about his coaching THIS YEAR are baseless and just the Rant being the Rant is a bit off the mark.
My hope is there are some lessons learned, some evaluation of coaching manner and philosophy and progress moving forward.
Because 2016 and beyond promises some legit talent coming on board.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 9:52 am to Tiger Ugly
Any rumors or inside info on something happening during the season, that might have derailed things?A fight between players, or player-coaches?
Seemed like the first part of the season we were destined to win 20+ and breeze into the NCAA tourney. This wasn't based just on beating preseason chumps, but on how well we played against UMass, Memphis and St Joe's (went 1-2 but easily could have been 3-0), 3 teams that should be in. Those games were away (or neutral site), so at the time it sure seemed like the road wouldn't bother this team.
Something seemed to change within the team about the time we played Rhode Island. Took a bad loss to a bad team at home, and in that game it appeared that the team didn't really give a crap. Just wondering if there was some conflict that fed things then.
Seemed like the first part of the season we were destined to win 20+ and breeze into the NCAA tourney. This wasn't based just on beating preseason chumps, but on how well we played against UMass, Memphis and St Joe's (went 1-2 but easily could have been 3-0), 3 teams that should be in. Those games were away (or neutral site), so at the time it sure seemed like the road wouldn't bother this team.
Something seemed to change within the team about the time we played Rhode Island. Took a bad loss to a bad team at home, and in that game it appeared that the team didn't really give a crap. Just wondering if there was some conflict that fed things then.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 10:05 am to Scoob
quote:
Any rumors or inside info on something happening during the season, that might have derailed things?A fight between players, or player-coaches?
Nothing that I heard Scoob.
quote:
Something seemed to change within the team about the time we played Rhode Island. Took a bad loss to a bad team at home, and in that game it appeared that the team didn't really give a crap. Just wondering if there was some conflict that fed things then.
My take on this is that teams scouted us, took away some of the things we did well and I just don't think we ever counter-adjusted very well.
I think some would argue this was dictated by our personnel. I would give some merit to that argument, but not nearly as much as some.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 10:25 am to Tiger Ugly
Thanks, just curious. I'm way outside the loop, so I'm certainly not aware of anything myself.
Of course, there's simply the issue that the team was never as good as we thought; I figured the Butler game (a close win) was a good test. Turns out, Butler had a losing record.
Of course, there's simply the issue that the team was never as good as we thought; I figured the Butler game (a close win) was a good test. Turns out, Butler had a losing record.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 10:33 am to Scoob
quote:
Of course, there's simply the issue that the team was never as good as we thought; I figured the Butler game (a close win) was a good test. Turns out, Butler had a losing record.
I'd agree with that, but I'd follow-up with that IMHO, neither was the team as good as they should have been.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 10:38 am to Hat Tricks
quote:
Coleman - recruited by Trent Johnson Malik Morgan - recruited by Trent Johnson Shane Hammink - recruited by Trent Johnson
Those 3 guys were coming regardless who the coach was.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 10:41 am to coachLSU
quote:
Those 3 guys were coming regardless who the coach was.
I agree. Morgan for sure committed to Trent. The other two committed to CJJ, but I agree...I think they were coming here no matter the coach.
At the time there were some here who argued that there was no guarantee they were coming here had Trent stayed, but I think that was mostly from folks fed up with Trent and his recruiting limitations, and not based on much substance.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 11:00 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
This team has average talent. Martin was overhyped and is adjusting slowly. Is super talented
Well, that's confusing.
What? Are you slow? Martin is very talented but hasn't transformed his raw ability to someone who you can count on consistently. He needs to work on attacking the paint, aaggressiveness and defense. I don't know how to be more clear. If you actually watched more than the UK game you might understand.
quote:
Where is the rest of the talent all Of yall talk about when trying yo justify your unrealistic expectations? ???????
You only need a couple of very talented players (which LSU has) and some solid contributors elsewhere to get to the NCAA tourney,
This team has some mediocre talent around a decent starting 5. Watch a few tourney games and compare those teams to lsu. It won't even be close. I've seen ever minute of every basketball game this year except for one. This team is not that talented. Not tourney quality. I love em but that is the cold truth
Posted on 3/16/14 at 11:05 am to pellietigersaint
quote:
This team has some mediocre talent around a decent starting 5. Watch a few tourney games and compare those teams to lsu. It won't even be close. I've seen ever minute of every basketball game this year except for one. This team is not that talented. Not tourney quality. I love em but that is the cold truth
I don't know, I've watched a lot of basketball this year and it's all relative.
Looking at the last 4 in and out, I'm not so sure I'm on board with your assessment. I think our talent is comparable, the state of men's college hoops just ain't what it was even 6-7 years ago.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 11:13 am to pellietigersaint
Terrible defensive fundamentals is the reason we aren't going to the ncaa tournament this. Not all the not an in game coach/bad x's & o's repetative garbage people on here keep saying. Teaching guys how to play defense, especially martin & mickey has to be the #1 priority for next year.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 11:27 am to tigerbait2010
quote:
I totally agree. 2 years is sufficient time to turn a progra around. We should terminate him immediately
And I guess we should tell future coaches the same thing- if they don't get us to the NCAA's after 2 years they are gone...
Posted on 3/16/14 at 12:13 pm to HonoraryCoonass
quote:
What do they really mean? What does Jones (or any LSU hoops coach, past or present) need to accomplish to be considered a success in the eyes of Tiger fans? I think for an LSU coach to be considered successful he'd have to reach NCAA tourney at least 2 out of every 3 years, while never missing the tourney 3 years in a row, and win an SEC championship every 7 or 8 years.
You have virtually described the final 8 1/2 years of the John Brady era . Should we set the bar higher or wish for the good old days of Brady Ball?
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