- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
Johnny Jones among more reactionary coaches to foul trouble in CBB per Ken Pom
Posted on 7/20/16 at 12:39 pm
Posted on 7/20/16 at 12:39 pm
Interesting statistical breakdown of how often coaches in College Basketball play players with 2 fouls in the first half. The chart breaks down the percentage of available minutes played out of total possible minutes with 2 fouls in the first half of games.
Johnny Jones checks in at 241 out of 321 coaches included in the study, playing his guys 12.1% of the available first half minutes with 2 fouls. Interestingly, he still ranks higher than a number of well-regarded coaches and very successful coaches, including Tom Izzo (294), Rick Pitino (261), John Calipari (243), and Lon Kruger (263).
Seems like a common criticism of Jones involves his handling of fouls. Of course there are tons of variables for which it is extremely difficult to account, including roster depth, strength of competition, how adept individuals may be at avoiding additional fouls, etc. and it's not clear what conclusions we can draw from this but I found this interesting nonetheless and figured I'd share:
LINK
Johnny Jones checks in at 241 out of 321 coaches included in the study, playing his guys 12.1% of the available first half minutes with 2 fouls. Interestingly, he still ranks higher than a number of well-regarded coaches and very successful coaches, including Tom Izzo (294), Rick Pitino (261), John Calipari (243), and Lon Kruger (263).
Seems like a common criticism of Jones involves his handling of fouls. Of course there are tons of variables for which it is extremely difficult to account, including roster depth, strength of competition, how adept individuals may be at avoiding additional fouls, etc. and it's not clear what conclusions we can draw from this but I found this interesting nonetheless and figured I'd share:
LINK
quote:
Let’s take inventory on how every coach in college hoops handles foul trouble. To make this as simple as possible, for each head coach I’m going to determine how often a starter with two fouls is on the floor in the first half.
quote:
To make this happen, I’m using the last seven seasons of play-by-play data. I’ve sampled every game at each minute of the first half. For example, with exactly 19:00 left, I’m checking if there is a starter with two fouls and whether that starter is on the floor, then repeating this for 18:00 and each minute thereafter all the way to the end of the half.
This is essentially a random sample of the data, especially when you consider I am throwing out situations where the play-by-play data doesn’t allow one to definitively know who is on the floor. But it’s going to uncover each coach’s tendencies quite well. Just don’t take the percentages beyond the decimal point as a literal record of what’s happened in the last seven seasons. It’s reasonably close to what happened given the limitations of the data.
7
Posted on 7/20/16 at 12:46 pm to Jamohn
This just in: Johnny Jones is not a good Basketball Coach. News at 11.
Posted on 7/20/16 at 12:57 pm to Jamohn
I don't have any issue with a coach sitting a guy with 2 fouls for the rest of the first half. However, it can't be a hard, fast rule, without exception for circumstances.
For instance, if Victor picked up 2 early, you HAD to sit him for the rest of the half without exception. He was only one of two serviceable post players and was a real potential to pick up a foul on every trip.
At the end of the day though, I think the "2 foul" issues was FAR from Jones' biggest problem. The overall lack of emphasis on defense is THE biggest reason LSU is so inconsistent. Until that changes, this will remain a program capable of beating any team or losing to any team.
For instance, if Victor picked up 2 early, you HAD to sit him for the rest of the half without exception. He was only one of two serviceable post players and was a real potential to pick up a foul on every trip.
At the end of the day though, I think the "2 foul" issues was FAR from Jones' biggest problem. The overall lack of emphasis on defense is THE biggest reason LSU is so inconsistent. Until that changes, this will remain a program capable of beating any team or losing to any team.
Posted on 7/20/16 at 12:59 pm to Alt26
I agree. Again--not sure what conclusions are to be drawn if any, and there are so many variables in play. I just found the data interesting for a college basketball fan in general.
Posted on 7/20/16 at 1:03 pm to Jamohn
Johnny Jones is fricking terrible.
Posted on 7/20/16 at 1:05 pm to Alt26
quote:
I don't have any issue with a coach sitting a guy with 2 fouls for the rest of the first half. However, it can't be a hard, fast rule, without exception for circumstances.
When it's the future #1 overall pick and you're fighting for a tourney spot late in the year, it's a bad move IMO
Posted on 7/20/16 at 1:06 pm to Jamohn
But you also have to note that those top coaches have MUCH DEEPER benches than us.
So it didn't hurt them nearly as much as us.
We didn't have the luxury of replacing a 5 star with another 5 star.
He needed to take more chances with 2 fouls in the first half and 4 fouls in the second than he did with the lack of depth we had.
So it didn't hurt them nearly as much as us.
We didn't have the luxury of replacing a 5 star with another 5 star.
He needed to take more chances with 2 fouls in the first half and 4 fouls in the second than he did with the lack of depth we had.
This post was edited on 7/20/16 at 1:07 pm
Posted on 7/20/16 at 1:32 pm to cas4t
quote:
When it's the future #1 overall pick and you're fighting for a tourney spot late in the year, it's a bad move IMO
In our season finale, Jones put Simmons back in the game with 2 fouls in the first half. Simmons almost immediately picked up #3.
Posted on 7/20/16 at 1:39 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
But you also have to note that those top coaches have MUCH DEEPER benches than us.
That makes sense.
Good luck with that on here.
Just bash the coach who averages 20 wins a year, brings in NBA draft picks, has taken LSU to the NCAA tournament and also been won a game in the NIT and would have had LSU back in the NIT last year had LSU not turned a bid down.
Posted on 7/20/16 at 1:47 pm to Abikaasa_Posti_Teel
quote:
But you also have to note that those top coaches have MUCH DEEPER benches than us.
So it didn't hurt them nearly as much as us.
We didn't have the luxury of replacing a 5 star with another 5 star.
He needed to take more chances with 2 fouls in the first half and 4 fouls in the second than he did with the lack of depth we had.
You could also say that the coach with the better bench can more easily afford to just play the best player non-stop until he fouls out or gets 4 fouls because another 5 star player can then replace him.
Posted on 7/20/16 at 1:52 pm to LSUhoopsfan2
quote:
That makes sense.
Good luck with that on here.
Just bash the coach who averages 20 wins a year, brings in NBA draft picks, has taken LSU to the NCAA tournament and also been won a game in the NIT and would have had LSU back in the NIT last year had LSU not turned a bid down
Alright mediocrity!!!!! Maybe by year 8 at LSU Jones will have gotten the team to the NCAAT TWICE!!! Hell, by the time he gets to year 32 of his head coaching career he may even actually win a game in the NCAAT. That would be wild!!
Who gives a shite about the NIT? If a program is measuring success by the number of NIT appearances, then that is a sad program indeed
Of the coaches' preseason top 25 last year only ONE team failed to make the NCAA tournament. I'll let you guess who that team was?
Posted on 7/20/16 at 1:55 pm to Jamohn
Izzo, Pitino, Calipari have 5 stars all up and down their bench...they can afford to take players out for the remainder of the half.
If you don't have depth you should probably take a few more chances throughout the season.
If you don't have depth you should probably take a few more chances throughout the season.
This post was edited on 7/20/16 at 1:56 pm
Posted on 7/20/16 at 1:56 pm to Jamohn
The real news is the fact that he reacted to anything at all.
Posted on 7/20/16 at 2:18 pm to LSUhoopsfan2
quote:
Just bash the coach who averages 20 wins a yea
You watch these games at all?
quote:
brings in NBA draft picks
And underachieves with them. We are one of only two teams ever to not make the tournament with an overall #1 pick. It was agreed from the beginning that not making it to the dance would be a disappointment.
quote:
taken LSU to the NCAA tournament
Trent Johnson did the same and was the SEC coach of the year at one point. Let that sink in.
quote:
won a game in the NIT and would have had LSU back in the NIT last year had LSU not turned a bid down.
This post was edited on 7/20/16 at 2:19 pm
Posted on 7/20/16 at 2:23 pm to Jamohn
protecting your star is one thing, but pulling a replaceable guy like jalyn patterson on the rare occasion that he is en fuego, or aaron epps when he's the only one protecting the rim. who gives a frick if josh gray gets a third foul? victor obviously needed protection last year and ben at times, but you can't just pull role players who can afford a third foul; it just fricks up the rhythm and flow.
also, he is terrible at game management in terms of working around tv timeouts and game situations with guys on 2 fouls. if blakeney is on the bench, but we've got the ball coming out of a TO or a dead ball with the chance to hold for the final possession, GET HIM BACK INT HE frickING GAME.
also, he is terrible at game management in terms of working around tv timeouts and game situations with guys on 2 fouls. if blakeney is on the bench, but we've got the ball coming out of a TO or a dead ball with the chance to hold for the final possession, GET HIM BACK INT HE frickING GAME.
Posted on 7/20/16 at 3:50 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:yeah when the game was already out of reach. He let him sit the bench when we couldn't score for like 10 minutes.
In our season finale, Jones put Simmons back in the game with 2 fouls in the first half. Simmons almost immediately picked up #3.
This post was edited on 7/20/16 at 3:51 pm
Posted on 7/20/16 at 4:26 pm to S
I never had an issue with him subbing players in foul troublex but he always subbed players that were hot and in a groove our use a dumbass timeout when the team was on a run. Hopefully the team actually presses this year too. Not that stupid 1-2-1-1 that always gets breaked but full court press or a 2-2-1 press would be nice.
For the first time since John Brady I think this team will be led by scrappiness and defense.
Also Tone, Sampson, Patterson, Epps and Hayward should provide some consistent outside shooting.
For the first time since John Brady I think this team will be led by scrappiness and defense.
Also Tone, Sampson, Patterson, Epps and Hayward should provide some consistent outside shooting.
This post was edited on 7/20/16 at 4:28 pm
Posted on 7/20/16 at 4:30 pm to Alt26
quote:
I don't have any issue with a coach sitting a guy with 2 fouls for the rest of the first half. However, it can't be a hard, fast rule, without exception for circumstances.
this is correct. Sitting a player with 2 fouls isn't necessarily wrong, but that shouldn't be set in stone.
A good coach adapts to the unique situation of each game. Black-letter rules like this just means that Jones doesn't have to think. And that's bad.
Posted on 7/20/16 at 4:58 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
In our season finale, Jones put Simmons back in the game with 2 fouls in the first half. Simmons almost immediately picked up #3.
quote:
fighting for a tourney spot l
point being, I'd have like to see him take a few risks when it actually mattered. Not every coach operates in this same manner when it comes to fouls.
Posted on 7/20/16 at 5:12 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
In our season finale, Jones put Simmons back in the game with 2 fouls in the first half. Simmons almost immediately picked up #3.
And not a lick of coaching or emotion showed thereafter. Just a blank stare .... indicative of why we struggled all year.
Page 1 of 1
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News