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1
Posted on 9/29/15 at 8:27 am to jeffsdad
It is not the officials responsibility to coach. The receiver on the line should line up with the officials foot which designates the LOS. Depending on they type of mechanics used, the HL or the LJ will hold up their arms towards the backfield indicating that the receiver closest to the H or the L is actually lined up off of the line. This helps the S, F and B find the player they key on.
A receiver who leans forward, and breaks the neutral zone, is considered to be in violation of the LOS.
In college the rule is 5 men in the backfield. In high school the same rule states that you must have 7 men on the line of scrimmage with only 4 in the backfield. Written two different ways but enforced the same as it becomes a foul only when the ball is snapped.
A receiver who leans forward, and breaks the neutral zone, is considered to be in violation of the LOS.
In college the rule is 5 men in the backfield. In high school the same rule states that you must have 7 men on the line of scrimmage with only 4 in the backfield. Written two different ways but enforced the same as it becomes a foul only when the ball is snapped.
Posted on 9/29/15 at 8:33 am to jeffsdad
yes, it is a line judge's responsibility to judge the line
Posted on 9/29/15 at 8:52 am to jeffsdad
Receivers should just look at that blue line that's superimposed over the field. No brainer.
Posted on 9/29/15 at 9:01 am to jeffsdad
quote:
why in the creation is it the official's responsibility to be certain I am lined up correctly?
Because the WR and the official are far away from the ball, and it's a judgment call whether you are close enough to the LOS to be on the line or off it. The WR can look at it and think he's on the line, but the official's judgment may be different. So, the WR basically says he is trying to be on the line (or off it, whichever) and asks the ref if he is where he thinks he is. If the official's judgment differs, he is supposed to tell the WR whether he is where he thinks he is. The official is not expected to tell the WR when he's in an illegal formation, but only whether he is where he is trying to line up. If the WR says he is trying to be off the line, but that would result in an illegal formation, the ref can say "yes, you're off the line", and then throw the flag when the ball is snapped.
Posted on 9/29/15 at 9:05 am to jeffsdad
quote:
jeffsdad
I feel bad for Jeff.
Posted on 9/29/15 at 9:26 am to jeffsdad
several reasons:
1. LOS is invisible and the best vantage point of its exact location is the line judge
2. there is no precise indicator for an exact yard to determine the difference btwn the LOS and the backfield, the distinction is based on line judge's visual approximation
3. if there is no way to objectively establish the exact distance, checking with the line judge is both accepted and necessary to some degree
1. LOS is invisible and the best vantage point of its exact location is the line judge
2. there is no precise indicator for an exact yard to determine the difference btwn the LOS and the backfield, the distinction is based on line judge's visual approximation
3. if there is no way to objectively establish the exact distance, checking with the line judge is both accepted and necessary to some degree
Posted on 9/29/15 at 10:14 am to southernelite
quote:
The referee has to hold his out if the widest receiver is on the line. Either Dural didn't check or the ref didn't have his hand out.
While this is true in high school, most college and pro officials don't "punch back" to indicate on or off for the widest person on their side. Mainly because the rules are a little different. In high school you must have 7 men on the line of scrimmage. In college, the rule reads that you can have no more than four men in the backfield.
Now I know some of you math geniuses are counting and saying that is the same thing. However, take a situation where the offense only has 10 men on the field. You can have four in the backfield and only six on the line: illegal by NFHS rules, legal by NCAA.
The other reason for not "punching back" is that on 99.9% of college fields the field is essentially flat, or with very little hump, that is commonly seen on high school fields for drainage. This makes it easier to see across the field and count the men that are not on the line.
Posted on 9/29/15 at 10:19 am to jeffsdad
quote:
why in the creation is it the official's responsibility to be certain I am lined up correctly?
Because he's the ref responsible for calling illegal formation, genius. So you turn to him and say, am I on the line?" And he responds yes (no action needed unless you need to be off the line) or no (you need to move up)
All receivers at all levels ask. This is one big reason for 2 sets of chains. If not, ball is on left hash and you are split way wide right, how can you know where the line is
Posted on 9/29/15 at 10:20 am to HeadBusta4LSU
quote:
When the WR is split out so far it's not easy to tell if you are on the line
Played reciever in HS, and this is correct. It is more difficult to tell where you are than you would think; so I would just point at the ref and he would nod his head to confirm. Very simple.
Posted on 9/29/15 at 10:29 am to catinthehat
quote:
there is no precise indicator for an exact yard to determine the difference btwn the LOS and the backfield, the distinction is based on line judge's visual approximation
The rule reads that any player that is lined up in a manner in which he is is breaking an imaginary plane running from sideline to sideline through the hips of the center, is deemed to be on the line of scrimmage.
This post was edited on 9/29/15 at 10:31 am
Posted on 9/29/15 at 10:38 am to GeeOH
quote:
Because he's the ref responsible for calling illegal formation, genius. So you turn to him and say, am I on the line?" And he responds yes (no action needed unless you need to be off the line) or no (you need to move up) All receivers at all levels ask. This is one big reason for 2 sets of chains. If not, ball is on left hash and you are split way wide right, how can you know where the line is
As an official, when I am doing a Jr. High game or below, I help coach the player by saying up or back once they tell me on or off.
High School JV games I will put my front leg in the neutral zone, then tell them that my back leg is to be deemed "on the line" and if they need to be off they need to be at least one yard back of that. I will then give them a thumbs up if they ask and are correct throughoutt he game.
On Friday nights I expect them to have this down, so i explain the back leg during pregame to the coach, and at that point it is their responsibility to know. I give no indication of yes or no at this level.
At the NCAA level, there is nothing said at all since there are typiclly two line markers, one on each side of the field.
Posted on 9/29/15 at 11:34 am to jeffsdad
quote:
Nope, hasnt always been done. I was a receiver. Back in my day an official would probably slap you if you asked .
False, it's the first thing you learn playing wide receiver.....ALWAYS check with the ref......
I too played wide receiver before anyone thinks to talk stupid!!!
It's not the ref's responsibility, but they have no problem saying move up or back........just watch the NFL guys, they do it as well.......
This post was edited on 9/29/15 at 11:38 am
Posted on 9/29/15 at 12:07 pm to beauchristopher
quote:
I actually think receivers checking with side line officials on location is actually somewhat common..
Very common, virtually everyone does it.
Posted on 9/29/15 at 1:12 pm to SaturdayTraditions
bullshite, and you know it
Posted on 9/29/15 at 1:14 pm to SaturdayTraditions
quote:
Friday nights I expect them to have this down, so i explain the back leg during pregame to the coach, and at that point it is their responsibility to know. I give no indication of yes or no at this level.
So you're just an a-hole who wants to call a penalty for something that has no advantage?
Btw, players in the nfl still check with ref. Get off your high horse.
Posted on 9/29/15 at 1:28 pm to fan251
quote:
Nope, hasnt always been done. I was a receiver. Back in my day an official would probably slap you if you asked .
When a receiver points to the ref, he is telling the ref "I'm on..."
When a receiver sticks his hand outward behind his back, he is telling the ref "I'm off..."
It is not a requirement per se, but receivers are taught to do this to ensure proper alignment and typically refs will let you know either way!
Posted on 9/29/15 at 2:03 pm to GeeOH
Not BS.. that is the way it is. As a baseball official I don't tell a batter where o stand in the box or a pitcher where to stand on the rubber. By the time you get to the varsity level in HS you need to know basic positioning techniques.
Posted on 9/29/15 at 2:05 pm to TigerBait1127
There is no high horse here. I do the mechanics that are in the book. Helping a reciever line up is not one of those mechanics. I have a lot of other things pre-snap that I have to do as a wing official. I don't have time to babysit a player.
Posted on 9/29/15 at 2:08 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
So you're just an a-hole who wants to call a penalty for something that has no advantage?
It does have an advantage. If you line up illegally it can make it appear as though there are more eligible recievers than there should be. Thus making the defense vacate their gap in order to cover. That is why it is a penalty. It give an unfair advantage to the offensive team.
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