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Message
After watching folks thrash around here, I'll add my $0.02 re: LSU's Offense...
Posted on 9/16/15 at 8:23 am
Posted on 9/16/15 at 8:23 am
I have no particular problem playing keep away provided its effective. The gameplan we used early was fantastic and showed a diversity of formations. One back, pistol, shotgun, multi (3 or 2 w/TE Flexed), etc. I saw the TE's get into passing routes, and one actually caught a pass (Gasp!). I saw us try to use swing passes, screen passes, PA passes, traditional I-Formation PA passes, zone-read, etc.
A number of things coalesced into a bad, off-script gameplan for the 2nd half-and the 4th quarter especially. The overt reliance-or the larger than expected amount of checks to run plays vs. run defenses with 8 or more men in the box-on the rushing attack kept putting our defense back on the field in the 2nd half.
What annoys me about this is that a lot of people are ignoring what makes this especially troublesome. Which is our next opponent and what they like to do on offense, and-most importantly for my point-how they like to do it.
Look by now everyone realizes we ran out of gas late. We simply got tired on defense and with the offenses inability to move the ball and keep the defense off the field long enough to get rest, we not only shrank the game down, but we put ourselves in a position to lose it if not for a poor kicking game and a bad penalty on State's part.
But to do that late vs. Mississippi State on the road when you have a very respectable but sputtering Auburn team coming to town is questionable. We have a 2:30 kickoff time, a typical forecast of high temperatures, a somewhat thin and inexperienced level of depth behind the front-line starters on the DL, and an opposing offense that loves to run a ton of plays.
We needed to not just try to run the ball. We needed to try and possess the ball. The run-heavy calling and checking was not conducive to that. When the threat of the pass is such that you can simply ignore it, or your staff is okay to keep putting your Defense on the field without understanding the context of the season as a marathon and not a sprint, it won't show up right away.
We can beat an MSU even though we get leaky on Defense late. But we hadn't gotten far enough away from State on the scoreboard to do it just yet. We called the dogs off-playcalling wise on offense-before we put enough distance between us and them. Which meant we have to continue to give max effort on defense and it burned through our kids.
With Auburn coming that's a cause for concern. If it continues to be a habit-and there's no saying it is or it isn't here-then the results of this philosophy will rear its head and express itself on the back end of our schedule as our defense simply runs out of gas down the stretch.
So yes, Pollyanna/Sunshine Pumpers/PosiTigers...yes, I get that we averaged over 5YPC and we didn't "have" to pass the ball to win. You are 100% correct.
...and Yes, NegaTigers/Realists/Pragmatists...yes, I get that we will face teams that don't give us the ability to run it for over 5YPC and we will need to pass the ball to win and develop the passing game before we have to lean on it. You are 100% correct.
Anyone making either point is making a fantastic one. The problem is-like an iceberg-that relying on just running the ball over and over again is not going to be a problem now. It's the problem you don't see (the one under the surface). It will be a problem later. When we try to pass and when we try to play defense.
We have to diversify while we can, regardless of the success of one current aspect of our offense. You don't need balance when one thing is working. You need balance when that one thing isn't working. That's the whole point of it.
A number of things coalesced into a bad, off-script gameplan for the 2nd half-and the 4th quarter especially. The overt reliance-or the larger than expected amount of checks to run plays vs. run defenses with 8 or more men in the box-on the rushing attack kept putting our defense back on the field in the 2nd half.
What annoys me about this is that a lot of people are ignoring what makes this especially troublesome. Which is our next opponent and what they like to do on offense, and-most importantly for my point-how they like to do it.
Look by now everyone realizes we ran out of gas late. We simply got tired on defense and with the offenses inability to move the ball and keep the defense off the field long enough to get rest, we not only shrank the game down, but we put ourselves in a position to lose it if not for a poor kicking game and a bad penalty on State's part.
But to do that late vs. Mississippi State on the road when you have a very respectable but sputtering Auburn team coming to town is questionable. We have a 2:30 kickoff time, a typical forecast of high temperatures, a somewhat thin and inexperienced level of depth behind the front-line starters on the DL, and an opposing offense that loves to run a ton of plays.
We needed to not just try to run the ball. We needed to try and possess the ball. The run-heavy calling and checking was not conducive to that. When the threat of the pass is such that you can simply ignore it, or your staff is okay to keep putting your Defense on the field without understanding the context of the season as a marathon and not a sprint, it won't show up right away.
We can beat an MSU even though we get leaky on Defense late. But we hadn't gotten far enough away from State on the scoreboard to do it just yet. We called the dogs off-playcalling wise on offense-before we put enough distance between us and them. Which meant we have to continue to give max effort on defense and it burned through our kids.
With Auburn coming that's a cause for concern. If it continues to be a habit-and there's no saying it is or it isn't here-then the results of this philosophy will rear its head and express itself on the back end of our schedule as our defense simply runs out of gas down the stretch.
So yes, Pollyanna/Sunshine Pumpers/PosiTigers...yes, I get that we averaged over 5YPC and we didn't "have" to pass the ball to win. You are 100% correct.
...and Yes, NegaTigers/Realists/Pragmatists...yes, I get that we will face teams that don't give us the ability to run it for over 5YPC and we will need to pass the ball to win and develop the passing game before we have to lean on it. You are 100% correct.
Anyone making either point is making a fantastic one. The problem is-like an iceberg-that relying on just running the ball over and over again is not going to be a problem now. It's the problem you don't see (the one under the surface). It will be a problem later. When we try to pass and when we try to play defense.
We have to diversify while we can, regardless of the success of one current aspect of our offense. You don't need balance when one thing is working. You need balance when that one thing isn't working. That's the whole point of it.
This post was edited on 9/16/15 at 8:28 am
Posted on 9/16/15 at 8:25 am to Brageous
quote:
that's more than $0.02
No shite, thats at least a $4.
Posted on 9/16/15 at 8:29 am to Brageous
quote:
that's more than $0.02
More like a buck 3.80
Posted on 9/16/15 at 8:48 am to GFunk
several people have expressed your point on here just not so verbose. it is confusing to me that BH said he checked out of so many pass plays when we could count the defenders stacking the box. I guess the potential pass rush was the problem and he checked to the run expecting a blitz. while that is logical it seems to me that we need other plays to check into when a blitz is possible; like maybe a screen pass, a quick slant, etc. just something that would burn the blitzers and burn the run stoppers.
Posted on 9/16/15 at 8:51 am to LSU GrandDad
geez
one more thread on our first game of the year
our young QB
on the road
SEC team
and it is like that is how we will play for the entire 2015 season
take your 2 cents and move on
my fault I read it
one more thread on our first game of the year
our young QB
on the road
SEC team
and it is like that is how we will play for the entire 2015 season
take your 2 cents and move on
my fault I read it
Posted on 9/16/15 at 8:52 am to LSU GrandDad
Good post, GFunk.
A well thought-out, considerate post.
A well thought-out, considerate post.
Posted on 9/16/15 at 9:00 am to LSU GrandDad
quote:
LSU GrandDad
quote:
several people have expressed your point on here just not so verbose. it is confusing to me that BH said he checked out of so many pass plays when we could count the defenders stacking the box. I guess the potential pass rush was the problem and he checked to the run expecting a blitz. while that is logical it seems to me that we need other plays to check into when a blitz is possible; like maybe a screen pass, a quick slant, etc. just something that would burn the blitzers and burn the run stoppers.
To your point, if you listen to replay, Tom Luginbill says during the broadcast that the checks and audibles were all done from the sideline for BH6. So the question should be posed to the staff.
Either that or Luginbill just made up a lie on the sideline.
Posted on 9/16/15 at 9:19 am to GFunk
This same thread is started every year in far less words.
LSU needs to perfect its passing attack before the games when it needs to rely on the passing attack.
Except there are other considerations.
First, LSU also needed at least one game to work on its rushing attack. Sure, the QB and receivers need to work on timing, etc; however, people seem to forget that the offensive line also needs time to learn to work together as a unit. That takes time and repetition too.
Second, the first game of the season, against an opponent who is ranked, and in the SEC West, in their stadium, with a QB starting only his second game, might not be the most opportune time to perfect the passing attack. The five games after Auburn might be the more appropriate time.
Third, if I want to work on one aspect of an offense but I face a difficult opponent on the road, I'm going to work on and lean on the aspect in which I have a potential Heisman winner, not the aspect that has a second game starter.
LSU needs to perfect its passing attack before the games when it needs to rely on the passing attack.
Except there are other considerations.
First, LSU also needed at least one game to work on its rushing attack. Sure, the QB and receivers need to work on timing, etc; however, people seem to forget that the offensive line also needs time to learn to work together as a unit. That takes time and repetition too.
Second, the first game of the season, against an opponent who is ranked, and in the SEC West, in their stadium, with a QB starting only his second game, might not be the most opportune time to perfect the passing attack. The five games after Auburn might be the more appropriate time.
Third, if I want to work on one aspect of an offense but I face a difficult opponent on the road, I'm going to work on and lean on the aspect in which I have a potential Heisman winner, not the aspect that has a second game starter.
Posted on 9/16/15 at 9:21 am to TigerCliff777
Too much bull shite FOR ME TO READ! Did u actually see the game?
Posted on 9/16/15 at 9:39 am to GFunk
Throughout the season the play calls will change. We see it against Alabama every year and seem to forget that every year.
Posted on 9/16/15 at 10:12 am to Salviati
quote:
Salviati
quote:
This same thread is started every year in far less words.
Okay. Glad to know I'm not alone. Or that all those English classes paid off.
quote:
LSU needs to perfect its passing attack before the games when it needs to rely on the passing attack.
I'm glad we agree.
quote:
Except there are other considerations.
I'm still with you.
quote:
First, LSU also needed at least one game to work on its rushing attack.
Lock-step so far.
quote:
Sure, the QB and receivers need to work on timing, etc; however, people seem to forget that the offensive line also needs time to learn to work together as a unit.
Not sure anyone's disagreed with you. The opposite is also absolutely, 100% true with respect to the passing game as well. Considering a Lineman's hold took 7 points off the scoreboard in a game decided by a failed 2Pt Conversion and a missed FG as time expired, that was crucial.
To play devil's advocate from my own point, Diarse's hold took a rushing TD off the board.
My point in all this is that yes, I'm still with you. No one has forgotten that and nowhere did I mention that the running game isn't important. In fact I told folks who were crowing about it they were completely right.
quote:
That takes time and repetition too.
Still not disagreeing.
quote:
Second, the first game of the season, against an opponent who is ranked, and in the SEC West, in their stadium, with a QB starting only his second game, might not be the most opportune time to perfect the passing attack.
I'm not sure you understood my point. Maybe you do but you seem confused as to what I'm saying so in case that's true let me say it another way.
I don't think we need to work on it as much as we need to have it ready to use so that we aren't wearing the defense thin in advance of an opponent like the one we face this Saturday.
The methods and playcalling we used Saturday were hyperconservative to the point where we may have protected BH6 but we hurt the defense overall. One game does not a trend make, but if that hyperconservatism in terms of playcalling and checks moving forward, it will-while continuing to protect the QB and lean on what works (and make no mistake I feel the running game works very, very well)-wear the defense down earlier than need be and cause us defensive troubles as a unit against more difficult opposition in conference down the road.
Yes, they worked Saturday. But the law of unintended consequences means that what worked Saturday-if continued moving forward-may cause something else (read: defense) to not only stop working, but break down and buckle later on down the road.
With our depth on the DL, I know you'd agree that this is a cause for...well, maybe not concern...but cause to follow this playcallling philosophy closely.
quote:
Third, if I want to work on one aspect of an offense but I face a difficult opponent on the road, I'm going to work on and lean on the aspect in which I have a potential Heisman winner, not the aspect that has a second game starter.
Again, if I haven't emphasized it enough I understand the reasoning here. You make perfect sense. My point was that we can't continue to do this without seeing issues down the road.
I guess I consider this something to pay attention to in the event we fail to diversify and then later on someone complains about potential defensive issues.
This post was edited on 9/16/15 at 10:39 am
Posted on 9/16/15 at 10:24 am to GFunk
in response to your $100 statement...
Les is going to dictate the offense by what he thinks LSU needs to do to win the game. He is going to be as conservative as he feels he can get away with and win. Thus sometimes when we play bama he thinks we have to gamble a little more to win....vs just boring smash mouth football he does sometimes against inferior opponents he feels LSU can just line up and beat.
Les is going to dictate the offense by what he thinks LSU needs to do to win the game. He is going to be as conservative as he feels he can get away with and win. Thus sometimes when we play bama he thinks we have to gamble a little more to win....vs just boring smash mouth football he does sometimes against inferior opponents he feels LSU can just line up and beat.
Posted on 9/16/15 at 10:28 am to GFunk
quote:
The overt reliance-or the larger than expected amount of checks to run plays vs. run defenses with 8 or more men in the box
What am I missing here? If there are 8 or more in the box, why would we check to a run in the first place? Someone please explain.
Posted on 9/16/15 at 10:30 am to GFunk
quote:
After watching folks thrash around here, I'll add my $0.02 re: LSU's Offense...
$10.02
tl;dr "LSU needs to diversify their offensive play calls"
This post was edited on 9/16/15 at 10:32 am
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