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re: A good, modern offense doesn't require a QB to "read the entire field"

Posted on 9/25/22 at 10:09 am to
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423162 posts
Posted on 9/25/22 at 10:09 am to
quote:

I’ve been waiting-the entire time-to talk about the Front 7 and how what happens there requires additional checks and reads both pre and post.

Obviously. Again, this is where formation and motion dictate your post-snap reads. This thread is about post-snap reads. I'll state this again, this thread is also a defense of Daniels, who is being unfairly criticized by fans for things that shouldn't even be an issue.

I've always defended players who were put in -EV positions due to bad coaching. It's extremely unfair to criticize the player for things (like a bad scheme) outside of his control.

quote:

But keep posting. Walking you further and further into dilettante territory has been humorous. It’s readily apparent you can’t help yourself. Your opinion and need to be right is far, far more important than rationality. You trust your ability to argue way more than tangible evidence that points out the obvious error in thinking and faulty assertions and supporting information.

What you're doing is the same thing people did during the Les Miles era, arguing the same style. I have never claimed to be an expert on the technical. Plenty of people who had much more technical knowledge of football plays defended Les Miles for years in the same way.

The problem is you're not really arguing that much against me (as pointed out above). You're just trying to sound more "right" by adding more complexity for the sake of complexity. That's fine. Like I said people have been trying to one up me for years with the same style.

quote:

it’s fun to watch and a humorous way to spend a Sunday morning. Keep at it.

Watching you emotionally melt down (while I can see you pumping your chest in front of your screen) and your investment is much more highly entertaining, I assure you.
Posted by Bjorn Cyborg
Member since Sep 2016
26885 posts
Posted on 9/25/22 at 10:23 am to
quote:

And our OL was overrated as shite that year.


This has become some kind of meme for some reason, that the OL in 2019 sucked, even though they won the award as the best.

However, every one of them is in the NFL now. Three of them started in the NFL in 2020.

So, like most Rant talking points, completely bullshite.
Posted by TigerNE
Everett, MA
Member since Jul 2013
1096 posts
Posted on 9/25/22 at 10:31 am to
I beg you to not make a longer thread tomorrow.
Posted by tiggerthetooth
Big Momma's House
Member since Oct 2010
61335 posts
Posted on 9/25/22 at 10:34 am to
quote:

This has become some kind of meme for some reason, that the OL in 2019 sucked, even though they won the award as the best.

However, every one of them is in the NFL now. Three of them started in the NFL in 2020.

So, like most Rant talking points, completely bullshite.




There's nothing the rant loves doing more than blaming the OL for anything that goes wrong with the offense.


For about 7 years during the Miles/O era they would blame the OL incessantly despite the horrible offensive system. Based on their standards the only way to have an effective offense is to have 6-7 all-world offensive lineman in tow. It's never the scheme, never the QB, but always and forever the OL.
Posted by misey94
Hernando, MS
Member since Jan 2007
23327 posts
Posted on 9/25/22 at 10:39 am to
quote:

I am pretty sure Denbrock has stated as much in a PC or interview. He wants his QB focusing outside of the hash marks.


I guess you are overlooked us specifically working routes in the middle of the field last night. Doesn’t fit the narrative, right?

No one here trusts you, so go find the quotes of Denbrock talking about completely ignoring the middle of the field on purpose.
Posted by I20goon
about 7mi down a dirt road
Member since Aug 2013
12950 posts
Posted on 9/25/22 at 10:46 am to
quote:

I 100% agree with you.


But, does a modern offense require a quarter back to throw to players who aren’t uncovered and to throw to receivers in stride?
Yes- but the scheme, specifically route trees, should limit what you are going to "look for" post-snap.

Leverage and defensive positioning pre-snap should define your progressions. And before the ball is snapped the WR and QB have decided, based on leverage and positioning, what the best route to defeat that is. Then, based on the same items, the QB knows which of those are likely to be the most productive. He reads those in order of likelyhood of success post-snap, that's the progression.

IF the first 2, maybe 3, aren't anything like you expected- you and the WR read it totally wrong and nothing has a high chance of success and at that point you hit hot route or take off.

The key to it is the QB and WR having the same "read", i.e. being on the same page, of that leverage and positioning. Hence the "check w/me" offense of Ensminger/Brady. If you are choosing your routes before you view the defense leverage/positioning you are A) guessing, B) going to have to read all of those with no specific order of likelyhood of success.
Posted by misey94
Hernando, MS
Member since Jan 2007
23327 posts
Posted on 9/25/22 at 10:48 am to
quote:

Under Kelly/Denbrock, how many times has a RB/TE split out (the simplest ID play) to force the D to show its hand? I am pretty sure after 4 games it's 0 times.


I watched most of last night on a phone with terrible signal so I will have to re-watch on something larger, but RBs split out with Daniels alone in the backfield a few times in the State game.

Denbrock isn’t using a steady diet of this like Brady did, but you are here saying it hasn’t happened at all. Are you actually doing any research, or just talking out of your arse to try and pad arguments? There are reasons none of us take you seriously.
Posted by Bjorn Cyborg
Member since Sep 2016
26885 posts
Posted on 9/25/22 at 10:48 am to
2019 LSU had more NFL offensive linemen than Clemson has had in Dabo’s entire head coaching career at Clemson.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
423162 posts
Posted on 9/25/22 at 10:48 am to
quote:

even though they won the award as the best.

Grant Delpit also won the award for being the best DB in 2019. You want to defend that one?

We had the best team. The media is lazy. Hence why they are now overrated.

They were solid but far from elite.

quote:

However, every one of them is in the NFL now. Three of them started in the NFL in 2020.

They're OK-solid, but none are likely to ever been anything more than solid starter-rotational piece in the NFL.

Go look at teams with really good OLs like Bama and UGA and where their OL go in the draft year in, year out. THOSE are great OLs. Hopefully Kelly can get us there (he's recruiting OL at an elite level, currently)
Posted by Jcorye1
Tom Brady = GoAT
Member since Dec 2007
71473 posts
Posted on 9/25/22 at 10:51 am to
You lost me at one read.
Posted by Lou Pai
Member since Dec 2014
28140 posts
Posted on 9/25/22 at 10:54 am to
quote:

Under Kelly/Denbrock, how many times has a RB/TE split out (the simplest ID play) to force the D to show its hand? I am pretty sure after 4 games it's 0 times.


I’m not a Denbrock fan generally but I saw Emery do that once last night
This post was edited on 9/25/22 at 10:56 am
Posted by misey94
Hernando, MS
Member since Jan 2007
23327 posts
Posted on 9/25/22 at 10:58 am to
quote:

Except literally every air raid-based system does this and it gets installed quickly.


It took a year and a half for State’s offense to get in gear consistently under Leach. Listen to most analysts and they are very clear that it’s year 3 where Leach’s offenses with a new program finally hit their stride, which is part of the reason they were getting a lot of love heading into this season.

Leach’s system may “install” fast, but the players don’t pick it up nearly as quickly as you are letting on.
Posted by LSU7096
Houston
Member since May 2004
2499 posts
Posted on 9/25/22 at 11:01 am to
His misses are very bad misses. He's a great runner who makes some bad throws at times. Against elite defenses he will get picked with those poorly thrown balls over the middle.

Two were thrown so bad the defender and receiver couldn't touch the ball
Posted by Maverick14
Sulphur, La
Member since Aug 2014
2395 posts
Posted on 9/25/22 at 11:01 am to
Yes the guy is who he is he’s the same guy that was at Arizona st ! Stop acting like you don’t have to have a good qb ! And you have to have a good o line for all of this to work even with what you said you have to have a good o line!
Posted by Midtiger farm
Member since Nov 2014
5042 posts
Posted on 9/25/22 at 11:31 am to
quote:

I’m not a Denbrock fan generally but I saw Emery do that once last



They did it at least 5 times last night and against state but instead of watching the game people have their head up their arse trying to push a narrative

Also please link the interview where Denbrock said he doesn’t like to throw to the middle of the field

Posted by tigersruledude
Member since Oct 2005
1484 posts
Posted on 9/25/22 at 11:39 am to
quote:

This has become some kind of meme for some reason, that the OL in 2019 sucked, even though they won the award as the best. However, every one of them is in the NFL now. Three of them started in the NFL in 2020. So, like most Rant talking points, completely bull shite.


Eh…truth is probably something more like:

The 2019 OL was a great unit that protected the best QB season in CFB history. They won the Moore award because of it. However, they were greatly helped by the scheme, the QB who ran it, and skill unit that was simply ridiculous. The sum was way better than the parts. OL was probably not the “best OL in the country” from a talent or ability standpoint…but they were still fantastic and deserved the accolades they received given the season the team had.
Posted by dmatt2021
South LA
Member since Aug 2021
1515 posts
Posted on 9/25/22 at 11:41 am to
We don’t give a frick
Posted by burke985
UGANDA
Member since Aug 2011
24647 posts
Posted on 9/25/22 at 11:43 am to
Maybe they are dumbing down offenses to fit the athletes who they want to be QBs.
This post was edited on 9/25/22 at 12:02 pm
Posted by TigerFanatic99
South Bend, Indiana
Member since Jan 2007
27665 posts
Posted on 9/25/22 at 12:22 pm to
quote:

Our problem is that the Kelly/Denbrock offense is more antiquated.


I have a suspicion that there is no HC / OC / DC that you would be happy with. You might be able to say, "wrong! I would LOVE Blah, Bleh, and Blug!", but the reality is the second they finished coaching their first quarter you would have a dissertation ready about why they are a terrible fit for the modern state of college football.
Posted by Madking
Member since Apr 2016
47970 posts
Posted on 9/25/22 at 12:34 pm to
I’ve been on Denbrock all year but last night he called a good game for JD. Went a lot heavier and forced more man coverage which gave JD confidence to throw the ball in the middle of the field. Big improvement.
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