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Started By
Message
Electrical discussion
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:09 am
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:09 am
Disclaimer: Don't worry, I'm not going mess around with electricity. It terrifies me....but I'm interested in learning so I have some questions.
Let's say you have several 15 amp outlets on a 20 amp breaker, what size wire would you need. It would seem to me that you would have to have wire appropriate for 20 amps or you'd burn up the wire before the breaker trips, right?
Is there a way to monitor the amperage (I'm going to get this terminology wrong) going through a circuit? I have a 30 amp RV and I use a surge protector. Last weekend while camping I noticed that my surge protector tells me the voltage and amperage being used at a given time. What if I wanted to do that on my 15 amp outlet at home?
Background - I sometimes plug in my 30 amp camper into my 15 amp outlet on my 20 amp breaker at home just to run my RV fridge and AC overnight. This works successfully. Everything runs and no breakers trip. However, I noticed that my 15 amp outlet and my adapter to plug into the outlet have developed dark spots. What would cause this rather than the breaker just tripping from being overloaded?
Feel free to laugh at me now for probably some ignorant questions
Let's say you have several 15 amp outlets on a 20 amp breaker, what size wire would you need. It would seem to me that you would have to have wire appropriate for 20 amps or you'd burn up the wire before the breaker trips, right?
Is there a way to monitor the amperage (I'm going to get this terminology wrong) going through a circuit? I have a 30 amp RV and I use a surge protector. Last weekend while camping I noticed that my surge protector tells me the voltage and amperage being used at a given time. What if I wanted to do that on my 15 amp outlet at home?
Background - I sometimes plug in my 30 amp camper into my 15 amp outlet on my 20 amp breaker at home just to run my RV fridge and AC overnight. This works successfully. Everything runs and no breakers trip. However, I noticed that my 15 amp outlet and my adapter to plug into the outlet have developed dark spots. What would cause this rather than the breaker just tripping from being overloaded?
Feel free to laugh at me now for probably some ignorant questions
8
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:14 am to lsugrad35
quote:
Is there a way to monitor the amperage
Smart Home Energy Monitor with 8 50A Circuit Level Sensors | Vue - Real Time Electricity Monitor/Meter | Solar/Net Metering Amazon LINK
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:20 am to lsugrad35
There's two things in life i don't understand:
Women
and electricity
Women
and electricity
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:23 am to poochie
quote:
There's two things in life i don't understand:
Women
and electricity
Yea, notice how I didn't start a women thread. My wife would say its a lost cause for me.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:44 am to lsugrad35
quote:
20 amp breaker, what size wire would you need.
The answer is always #12 copper on a 20A breaker unless it is a long run with voltage drop issues. Then you can go bigger but not smaller.
This post was edited on 8/31/23 at 10:46 am
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:56 am to notsince98
quote:
The answer is always #12 copper on a 20A breaker
This is what I would expect the answer to be, but if you have a 20 amp breaker and 20 amp wire...what's the benefit of a 15 amp outlet? And what would be the con of having a 15 amp outlet?
Posted on 8/31/23 at 10:59 am to lsugrad35
If you have #12 wire and 20A breaker you should change the outlet.
If the outlet has black marks on it, I would assume your overloading it and it could catch fire one day.
If the outlet has black marks on it, I would assume your overloading it and it could catch fire one day.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 11:03 am to lsugrad35
quote:
This is what I would expect the answer to be, but if you have a 20 amp breaker and 20 amp wire...what's the benefit of a 15 amp outlet? And what would be the con of having a 15 amp outlet?
The benefit is that a 15A receptacle is cheaper than a 20A receptacle. Residential construction deals with pennies. The extra $100 or so to put all 20A devices is a deal breaker when spending $300k on a house.
The con is that its a 15A receptacle and not a 20A receptacle, but it could be easily replaced.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 11:17 am to lsugrad35
quote:Correct, all wire on a 20amp circuit must be 12awg or larger. Breakers protect the wiring.
Let's say you have several 15 amp outlets on a 20 amp breaker, what size wire would you need. It would seem to me that you would have to have wire appropriate for 20 amps or you'd burn up the wire before the breaker trips, right?
quote:You can use a Kill A Watt if you want to measure at just one receptacle, or to measure the whole circuit you can use a clamp-on multimeter inside the panel or get that Emporia device linked above to measure and record many circuits at once in real time.
Is there a way to monitor the amperage (I'm going to get this terminology wrong) going through a circuit? I have a 30 amp RV and I use a surge protector. Last weekend while camping I noticed that my surge protector tells me the voltage and amperage being used at a given time. What if I wanted to do that on my 15 amp outlet at home?
quote:Well, it's a 15 amp outlet on a 20 amp circuit. If you're drawing near the limit of the receptacle for long periods, it will get hot long before the breaker trips. It could also be an old worn out receptacle making weak contact and overheating as a result.
I noticed that my 15 amp outlet and my adapter to plug into the outlet have developed dark spots. What would cause this rather than the breaker just tripping from being overloaded?
Posted on 8/31/23 at 11:22 am to Korkstand
Appreciate all of the discussion here.
So if I have the black spots, is it relatively safe to say the wires are fine because its a 20 amp circuit, but the receptacle SHOULD BE the only thing potentially damaged. If I were to change the 15 amp receptacle to a 20 amp receptacle I would be fine...
Then again, I'd still be interested in seeing how much amperage is being pulled on that circuit. Really at a single receptacle like you mentioned because I'd likely ensure nothing else is using that circuit at the time.
quote:
Well, it's a 15 amp outlet on a 20 amp circuit. If you're drawing near the limit of the receptacle for long periods, it will get hot long before the breaker trips. It could also be an old worn out receptacle making weak contact and overheating as a result.
So if I have the black spots, is it relatively safe to say the wires are fine because its a 20 amp circuit, but the receptacle SHOULD BE the only thing potentially damaged. If I were to change the 15 amp receptacle to a 20 amp receptacle I would be fine...
Then again, I'd still be interested in seeing how much amperage is being pulled on that circuit. Really at a single receptacle like you mentioned because I'd likely ensure nothing else is using that circuit at the time.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 11:25 am to lsugrad35
I’d verify that you have #12 wire and not assume based on the breaker.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 11:26 am to lsugrad35
There are three separate issues here.
1. As stated above, 12 gauge wire is the minimum required, by code, on a 20 amp circuit. This all goes back to heat generated in the wire, fire hazard, etc.
2. The receptacles are configured to only allow certain plugs to be used, while still allowing a lower amp rating plug to be used. For example, look at the chart below (125V w/grounded plug, NEMA 5)) and you will see that while a 20A plug only fits a 20A receptacle, a 15A plug will fit into the same 20A receptacle. All this is an attempt to make things idiot proof and prevent an overload and fire.
3.The plug rating is a function of the end device and its maximum current.
If you aren't yet sorry you asked, here's the full NEMA chart for plugs & receptacles: LINK
1. As stated above, 12 gauge wire is the minimum required, by code, on a 20 amp circuit. This all goes back to heat generated in the wire, fire hazard, etc.
2. The receptacles are configured to only allow certain plugs to be used, while still allowing a lower amp rating plug to be used. For example, look at the chart below (125V w/grounded plug, NEMA 5)) and you will see that while a 20A plug only fits a 20A receptacle, a 15A plug will fit into the same 20A receptacle. All this is an attempt to make things idiot proof and prevent an overload and fire.
3.The plug rating is a function of the end device and its maximum current.
If you aren't yet sorry you asked, here's the full NEMA chart for plugs & receptacles: LINK
This post was edited on 8/31/23 at 11:38 am
Posted on 8/31/23 at 11:42 am to lsugrad35
I was told by electrician that 15 amp plugs on a 20 amp circuit are fine but not the other way around.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 12:02 pm to Unobtanium
quote:
The receptacles are configured to only allow certain plugs to be used, while still allowing a lower amp rating plug to be used. For example, look at the chart below (125V w/grounded plug, NEMA 5)) and you will see that while a 20A plug only fits a 20A receptacle, a 15A plug will fit into the same 20A receptacle. All this is an attempt to make things idiot proof and prevent an overload and fire.
This makes sense, but the idiot part comes in again when you use an adapter to go from 30 amp to your 15 amp receptacle right? So now you are again capable of pulling more than the 15 amps of the receptacle rating and even over the 20 amps of the circuit. If you happen to end up in the sweet spot and don't trip the 20 amp breaker then you are overheating the 15 amp receptacle, correct?
quote:
If you aren't yet sorry you asked
Never. This is all interesting to me. Bring it on
Posted on 8/31/23 at 12:54 pm to lsugrad35
quote:Correct. If you are pulling close to 20 amps then the breaker won't trip but your 15 amp outlet will function as an unintentional and unsafe slow-blow fuse.
This makes sense, but the idiot part comes in again when you use an adapter to go from 30 amp to your 15 amp receptacle right? So now you are again capable of pulling more than the 15 amps of the receptacle rating and even over the 20 amps of the circuit. If you happen to end up in the sweet spot and don't trip the 20 amp breaker then you are overheating the 15 amp receptacle, correct?
This post was edited on 8/31/23 at 12:55 pm
Posted on 8/31/23 at 1:25 pm to lsugrad35
quote:
but the idiot part comes in again when you use an adapter to go from 30 amp to your 15 amp receptacle right? So now you are again capable of pulling more than the 15 amps of the receptacle rating and even over the 20 amps of the circuit.
In theory, the end device can't pull more current than the rating of the breaker before the breaker will trip. Just because you are using an adapter to allow for use with a 15/20A circuit does not mean that the wire rated for 30A will allow for more amperage to be pulled. You can only get the what the breaker will allow.
As a previous poster said, the breaker is only protecting the wiring of the circuit. If the wiring connected on the 20A breaker is not 12AWG and is 14AWG, then I would change the breaker to 15A breaker and replace all recepticles on that circuit with new 15A recepticles. If the wiring is 12AWG, then I would replace all recepticles on that circuit with new 20A recepticles.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 2:45 pm to lsugrad35
quote:
This is what I would expect the answer to be, but if you have a 20 amp breaker and 20 amp wire...what's the benefit of a 15 amp outlet?
cheaper.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 2:45 pm to LSUSports247
quote:
If you have #12 wire and 20A breaker you should change the outlet.
If the outlet has black marks on it, I would assume your overloading it and it could catch fire one day.
The electrical code is perfectly fine with having multiple 15A outlets on a 20A breaker.
Posted on 8/31/23 at 2:50 pm to notsince98
If he’s concerned with the RV pulling more than 15amps, he should change the outlet
Posted on 8/31/23 at 4:42 pm to notsince98
quote:
The electrical code is perfectly fine with having multiple 15A outlets on a 20A breaker.
I don't really care what the electrical code is "perfectly fine" with, if the camper or anything else is using more than 1800 watts then that recepticle is in jeopardy of failing.
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