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Message
Caulk underside of siding?
Posted on 7/27/21 at 5:31 pm
Posted on 7/27/21 at 5:31 pm
Question for the H&G board.
We’re having our house painted and after telling them last Friday not to caulk the horizontal runs of the siding, I come home today to find that everything is caulked.
Is there any evidence supporting one way or another? This is the second wood siding house that I’ve had painted, and both (highly rated) painters wanted to caulk the bottoms, so it must be pretty common. I’ve told both not to, but the most recent one didn’t comply. Google tells me to let it breathe.
What’s the H&G consensus and how big of an issue should I raise?
We’re having our house painted and after telling them last Friday not to caulk the horizontal runs of the siding, I come home today to find that everything is caulked.
Is there any evidence supporting one way or another? This is the second wood siding house that I’ve had painted, and both (highly rated) painters wanted to caulk the bottoms, so it must be pretty common. I’ve told both not to, but the most recent one didn’t comply. Google tells me to let it breathe.
What’s the H&G consensus and how big of an issue should I raise?
This post was edited on 7/27/21 at 5:32 pm
5
Posted on 7/27/21 at 5:39 pm to LSUKTR
Pretty sure Hardie changed their recommendations a few years back. Our house has the seams and undersides caulked. When I built the wife’s office, their instructions were to flash butt joints and not caulk undersides. I doubt it makes much difference in 99.99% of houses but not certain
Posted on 7/27/21 at 6:13 pm to LSUKTR
My unprofessional opinion is it looks like shite uncaulked. My house is hardie and everything is caulked except for the rows below about 3 rows south of eye level. There should be a vapor barrier on the sheeting then flashing behind each joint. That will keep water out IF something were to get behind them.
Posted on 7/27/21 at 9:38 pm to RaginCajunz
quote:
When I built the wife’s office, their instructions were to flash butt joints and not caulk undersides.
When mine was built a couple years ago this is what they did.
There is a vapor barrier behind the siding so not sure what difference it would make.
Posted on 7/28/21 at 12:19 am to LSUKTR
Do not caulk the bottom edges of Hardie siding, nor the vertical butt joints. The horizontal edge is where any trapped water is allowed to escape.
Posted on 7/28/21 at 9:13 am to dragginass
quote:
nor the vertical butt joints.
This is true if the installer actually installs flashing behind the vertical butt joints. My installer did not (it is easy to check) so I have to caulk vertical butt joints on my siding. Thankfully there are only 2 on the entire house.
Posted on 7/28/21 at 1:15 pm to notsince98
You can slide a piece of flashing behind the joint, from below. No need to caulk.
ETA: you should not have nails near the edge of the boards, so you should be able to slip a 2" wide (or wider) piece of flashing all the way up, from the bottom edge.
ETA: you should not have nails near the edge of the boards, so you should be able to slip a 2" wide (or wider) piece of flashing all the way up, from the bottom edge.
This post was edited on 7/28/21 at 1:36 pm
Posted on 7/28/21 at 6:14 pm to dragginass
They actually changed that. Not to the users advantage. They just don’t cover water infiltration all together. So caulk away now.
Posted on 7/28/21 at 7:40 pm to LSUKTR
Caulk and paint it. Any moisture that manages to penetrate the siding system should be collected by the barrier and flow down to grade (DO NOT seal the bottom of the first course).
People have learned their lesson with stucco expansion joints also in this regard. They should be caulked and sealed prior to pulling final elastomeric finish to seal the wall system from driving rain.
People have learned their lesson with stucco expansion joints also in this regard. They should be caulked and sealed prior to pulling final elastomeric finish to seal the wall system from driving rain.
Posted on 7/28/21 at 7:59 pm to Art Vandelay
I don't believe you are correct. I have read the Hardie installation book within the last year.....regardless, you don't want to caulk the bottom edge of any lap siding!
Posted on 7/28/21 at 8:21 pm to dragginass
Ok. Pull it up and show me
Doesn’t really matter. They don’t warranty water infiltration and I do know that’s a fact.
Doesn’t really matter. They don’t warranty water infiltration and I do know that’s a fact.
Posted on 7/28/21 at 8:46 pm to Art Vandelay
You're being obtuse, but here you go.
[url=https://postimg.cc/XXDSdpM4]
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[url=https://postimg.cc/XXDSdpM4]
[/url]This post was edited on 7/28/21 at 8:48 pm
Posted on 7/28/21 at 9:28 pm to dragginass
quote:
regardless, you don't want to caulk the bottom edge of any lap siding!
You obviously were born before the Masonite era.
The bottom edges is where siding fails. Backpriming was the only solution for Masonite to even give it a modest servicable life in Southern climates.
Hardie is less prone to rot but why you would want to allow any more water behind your finished barrier is a mystery to me.
A siding wall system is not meant to be a cavity wall system like brick veneer so you need to keep as much of the wind driven rain out as possible from the start.
Posted on 7/28/21 at 9:32 pm to dragginass
I'll agree that if you are using a joint flashing behind every vertical joint (I would consider this rarely done in the real world) you can consider caulking the vertical joints optional.
Prime, caulk, and paint the whole wall and seal it up.
Whatever gets past should have a path to grade.
Prime, caulk, and paint the whole wall and seal it up.
Whatever gets past should have a path to grade.
Posted on 7/28/21 at 11:17 pm to AndyCBR
quote:
(I would consider this rarely done in the real world)
There are 2 Hardie certified installers in Louisiana, last time I checked. Neither would install siding as some of you are suggesting.
In a rudimentary sense I understand the thought behind "not wanting to let water in" but what you are doing by caulking horizontal runs is in fact detrimental to the drying/longevity of the siding. Even if you were installing on a rainscreen over your WRB, you would not want to do this. Hardie has specific nailing schedules for different wind zones to prevent wind driven water infiltration. Common methods are not an excuse to not build better.
Posted on 7/29/21 at 4:16 am to dragginass
quote:
There are 2 Hardie certified installers in Louisiana, last time I checked. Neither would install siding as some of you are suggesting.
Let me guess what is n their quotes; "Paint by others".
quote:
In a rudimentary sense I understand the thought behind "not wanting to let water in" but what you are doing by caulking horizontal runs is in fact detrimental to the drying/longevity of the siding. Even if you were installing on a rainscreen over your WRB, you would not want to do this. Hardie has specific nailing schedules for different wind zones to prevent wind driven water infiltration. Common methods are not an excuse to not build better.
Seal the wall, it's not brick or any type of cavity wall system by design.
What do you think happens at the horizontal lap joint even if you don't caulk? Especially if you brush or airless spray multiple coats of paint? It sure as heck isn't "open".
You've been watching too many youtube videos.
Posted on 7/29/21 at 7:33 am to dragginass
Obtuse but not wrong.
I sell truckloads of Hardie. First off it’s a shite product. Others have caught up and Hardie continues to try to improve their product and all they are doing is digging a hole. Hardie does not recommend Vs you can’t because it voids warranty are two different things. Right below your technical bulletin you can read how they recommended if you do caulk.
Caulk requires maintenance – Caulk manufacturers and industry experts agree that the caulk in field butt joints and horizontal laps will need to be periodically removed and/or reapplied to maintain the seal over the life of the building.
They had to adjust their warranty because let’s face it, it looks like shite if you don’t caulk it. You can’t caulk the butt ends because their product shrink so much it will separate anyway. Don’t get me started on color plus.
Bottom line OP said not to caulk and they did. So unless they are coming back to maintain the caulk at their cost when it starts to split and look like shite then they should tear out the caulk and paint without.
I sell truckloads of Hardie. First off it’s a shite product. Others have caught up and Hardie continues to try to improve their product and all they are doing is digging a hole. Hardie does not recommend Vs you can’t because it voids warranty are two different things. Right below your technical bulletin you can read how they recommended if you do caulk.
Caulk requires maintenance – Caulk manufacturers and industry experts agree that the caulk in field butt joints and horizontal laps will need to be periodically removed and/or reapplied to maintain the seal over the life of the building.
They had to adjust their warranty because let’s face it, it looks like shite if you don’t caulk it. You can’t caulk the butt ends because their product shrink so much it will separate anyway. Don’t get me started on color plus.
Bottom line OP said not to caulk and they did. So unless they are coming back to maintain the caulk at their cost when it starts to split and look like shite then they should tear out the caulk and paint without.
Posted on 7/29/21 at 8:53 am to Art Vandelay
Lol, whatever. You dared me to show you I was right, and I did.
There are better products than Hardie, but that's not what this discussion was. Do NOT caulk the horizontal runs!
There are better products than Hardie, but that's not what this discussion was. Do NOT caulk the horizontal runs!
Posted on 7/29/21 at 10:33 am to LSUKTR
From OP:
How did you know-it-alls get on Hardie?
Also, I understand OP to say his painter caulked along the bottom of the lap horizontally, not the vertical joints.
quote:
wood siding house
How did you know-it-alls get on Hardie?
Also, I understand OP to say his painter caulked along the bottom of the lap horizontally, not the vertical joints.
This post was edited on 7/29/21 at 10:36 am
Posted on 7/29/21 at 11:01 am to Art Vandelay
quote:How so? I know it's heavy as shite in a 4'x10' sheet.
Hardie. First off it’s a shite product.
I think it would be a better product if installers would properly nail it, caulk it properly, and at least paint cut edges, say those along dormer/chimney/other roof flashings, etc.
It's obvious neither of the two certified installers installed that shite on my home.
This post was edited on 7/29/21 at 11:02 am
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