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re: Official Destiny Thread (PS4) Join us in the Vault
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:17 am to oR33Do
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:17 am to oR33Do
quote:
So again, how is it cheating?
My answer to this has always been two parts:
1. There is a reasonable expectation that when playing the game, whether on Xbox or PlayStation, that those you are playing against are using the same equipment you are.
2. That setup has to be modified (I.e. an adapter) in order to support someone playing Xbox or PlayStation with a keyboard.
It is the MODIFICATION that makes it cheating IMO. Just as if someone MODIFIED their internet connection to create lag. I see them as one and the same.
1
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:18 am to Mr Gardoki
Not in Destiny.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:32 am to unbeWEAVEable
If you use those as a basis for cheating then if you use any third party Controller or an elite Controller by definition they are cheating.
Let me explain this so people can understand.
Destiny does not have an option to turn off aim assist. What this means is your in game cursor is prone to movement from the cursor being dragged toward another player you were not originally aiming at.
In free aim this would not be an issue.
There is not a freedom of movement in this game for the cursor. There is both in PC versions of popular shooters.
Destiny has a hard programmed range of motion that can not be overcome.
Using a M/KB does not give you any more of an advantage than an Elite Controller would.
If this was BF3 or BF4 then I would say that the xim4 adapter does give an unfair advantage as you can turn off aim assist and you have free range of movement. However in Destiny you do not.
Just like there is a hard programmed cool down of using Shadestep and Sprinting. They are there to prevent abuse.
Let me explain this so people can understand.
Destiny does not have an option to turn off aim assist. What this means is your in game cursor is prone to movement from the cursor being dragged toward another player you were not originally aiming at.
In free aim this would not be an issue.
There is not a freedom of movement in this game for the cursor. There is both in PC versions of popular shooters.
Destiny has a hard programmed range of motion that can not be overcome.
Using a M/KB does not give you any more of an advantage than an Elite Controller would.
If this was BF3 or BF4 then I would say that the xim4 adapter does give an unfair advantage as you can turn off aim assist and you have free range of movement. However in Destiny you do not.
Just like there is a hard programmed cool down of using Shadestep and Sprinting. They are there to prevent abuse.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:33 am to Mr Gardoki
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:42 am to oR33Do
quote:
Destiny also does not have free aim nor free movement that would be found in a PC Shooter such as Battlefield.
Okay? The precision of aiming with a mouse is still better.
quote:
Lupo is still bound to the same constraints that someone using a Controller would be
Not true. Aiming with your thumbs is just harder than pointing and clicking.
quote:
The Aim assist in Destiny is heavy and messes with free aim that would be accomplished by a mouse. Other wise, Lupo would be hitting headshots every shot, which isn't the case. You saying otherwise proves you either don't know what you are talking about or you have never actually watched Lupo play.
How do I not know what I am talking about? I have used controllers, I have used Keyboard and mouse. precision is much easier with a mouse.
You can go to any message board with this and 9 out of 10 people will disagree with you.
It is cheating because the game is supposed to be played with a controller. You have to use a work around to play it with a Keyboard and Mouse. Keyboard and Mouse is a superior tool.
There is a reason in pro tournaments for consoles, keyboard and mouse is not allowed.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:44 am to oR33Do
quote:
You don't have FREE AIM in Destiny.
I understand what you are saying but the ease of adjustments to aim and precision with a mouse is still a gap.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:52 am to Mystery
quote:
There is a reason in pro tournaments for consoles, keyboard and mouse is not allowed.
I don't necessarily see this as cheating in Destiny, because there isn't a super competitive mode in destiny due to no private lobbies and custom games and what not. You can say Trials is super competitive, but it truly isn't. If you lose once you are forgiven and even if you lose twice you have unlimited tries, or until you run out of glimmer to achieve flawless. Is it the most competitve mode we have in destiny? Yes. Bar none, but if you're looking for a serious, competitive FPS Destiny isn't it.
However, I can see if there was some ultra competitive mode on destiny and someone using it then there being a problem. Especially if money, whether it be winnings or endorsements were involved.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:55 am to McCaigBro69
I don't think it is a problem either. I could care less if he is using it. But acting like there is no advantage is silly.
If a guy is great with a Kb and mouse, I will always wonder how he is with a controller.
As far as the tournament comment, I meant in any console game ever. Not Destiny.
Keyboard and mouse in games like COD is even more of an advantage as you can get the sensitivity even higher.
If a guy is great with a Kb and mouse, I will always wonder how he is with a controller.
As far as the tournament comment, I meant in any console game ever. Not Destiny.
Keyboard and mouse in games like COD is even more of an advantage as you can get the sensitivity even higher.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:57 am to Mystery
quote:
You can go to any message board with this and 9 out of 10 people will disagree with you.
9 out of 10 people would be wrong in this instance then.
quote:
How do I not know what I am talking about? I have used controllers, I have used Keyboard and mouse. precision is much easier with a mouse.
Have you attempted using a kb/m in Destiny? If not, then you don't know what you are talking about.
It is fine to have an opinion but when you do not have concrete proof do not use your opinion as a matter of fact.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:57 am to Mystery
Oh for sure, I've always heard Keyboard and mouse is a huge no-no in any kind of console tournament setting and also that's a huge advantage, even though I know nothing about it personally lol.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 11:00 am to oR33Do
quote:
If you use those as a basis for cheating then if you use any third party Controller or an elite Controller by definition they are cheating.
No. An elite controller and a lot of third party controllers are Xbox "sanctioned", and have their logo on them, as well as sell them from their website. There is a reasonable expectation that if someone wanted to buy an elite controller or third party controller with the Xbox button on them, that they have every right to do so if they want to spend 3x as much on a controller. They are still Xbox sanctioned.
Show me one keyboard/mouse adapter that has an Xbox logo or is Xbox sanctioned FOR GAMING and I will digress.
You completely missed my point.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 11:06 am to unbeWEAVEable
Unless I'm just totally wrong, Scuf controllers are allowed in tournament play as well, right?
Posted on 1/20/16 at 11:08 am to oR33Do
quote:
Have you attempted using a kb/m in Destiny? If not, then you don't know what you are talking about.
It is fine to have an opinion but when you do not have concrete proof do not use your opinion as a matter of fact.
No, I have not played it on Destiny.
But yes, I understand that you can only go the max speed that a controller would be allowed.
This does not change the fact that it is easier to adjust and be precise with your entire hand than your thumb. Sorry this is a fact.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 11:09 am to McCaigBro69
quote:
Unless I'm just totally wrong, Scuf controllers are allowed in tournament play as well, right?
Yes.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 11:14 am to McCaigBro69
quote:
Unless I'm just totally wrong, Scuf controllers are allowed in tournament play as well, right?
Yes. They are the official and exclusive Xbox controller for professional gaming.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 11:16 am to unbeWEAVEable
So wouldn't that make them also, pretty much the same thing as an Elite controller?
Comparing an Elite controller and a Scuf to KB/M is a pretty long reach......
Comparing an Elite controller and a Scuf to KB/M is a pretty long reach......
Posted on 1/20/16 at 11:20 am to McCaigBro69
quote:
So wouldn't that make them also, pretty much the same thing as an Elite controller?
Comparing an Elite controller and a Scuf to KB/M is a pretty long reach......
Yes it does. And yes I wholeheartedly agree.
Posted on 1/20/16 at 11:53 am to unbeWEAVEable
Posted on 1/20/16 at 12:13 pm to McCaigBro69
I was not comparing Kb/m and scuf/elite Controller. I was saying that if you believe one gives you an unfair advantage then both do when compared to standard controllers.
Scuffs have hair triggers, same as you would expect on a mouse for response times.
It is like the old Razer Onzas they claimed were Tournament Editions. They gave huge advantages to Battlefield players over anyone who used a regular 360 Controller. I had a +.70 difference in KD with using an onza. The only negative was they would only last 3-4 months of normal use and were $80 a piece.
I have tried using a KB/M in Destiny. The game is feels like it is programmed to work against a KB/M user. I have a logitech G502 mouse. It has a max dpi of 12000. This is important for PC shooters as it helps for having a wide range of motion in moving the cursor. However with a Xim and in Destiny it is of little use because there is a maximum speed for which you can turn or ADS movement. If your mouse moves faster than that then your cursor has no additional improvement. That is why I just stick with my Controller because I have better movement speeds.
The reason why I tried it out because I have very large hands and using a Controller for more than a couple hours causes cramps. It is the same exact reason why Lupo uses it.
Also, Scufs were not endorsed by Microsoft until recently. It was something to do with MS and the patents with the extra buttons under the elite controller.
Scuffs have hair triggers, same as you would expect on a mouse for response times.
It is like the old Razer Onzas they claimed were Tournament Editions. They gave huge advantages to Battlefield players over anyone who used a regular 360 Controller. I had a +.70 difference in KD with using an onza. The only negative was they would only last 3-4 months of normal use and were $80 a piece.
I have tried using a KB/M in Destiny. The game is feels like it is programmed to work against a KB/M user. I have a logitech G502 mouse. It has a max dpi of 12000. This is important for PC shooters as it helps for having a wide range of motion in moving the cursor. However with a Xim and in Destiny it is of little use because there is a maximum speed for which you can turn or ADS movement. If your mouse moves faster than that then your cursor has no additional improvement. That is why I just stick with my Controller because I have better movement speeds.
The reason why I tried it out because I have very large hands and using a Controller for more than a couple hours causes cramps. It is the same exact reason why Lupo uses it.
Also, Scufs were not endorsed by Microsoft until recently. It was something to do with MS and the patents with the extra buttons under the elite controller.
This post was edited on 1/20/16 at 12:15 pm
Posted on 1/20/16 at 12:26 pm to oR33Do
quote:
9 out of 10 people would be wrong
Well that's rather conceited of you and the rest of the minority.
I think the most definitive proof comes from the fact that it can't be used in tournament play. If it's considered cheating there, it shouldn't be considered cheating anywhere.
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