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Anyone have access to black book values for used cars?
Posted on 8/29/16 at 10:52 am
Posted on 8/29/16 at 10:52 am
Am in market for a 2013 4Runner Limited as a flood-replacement vehicle, and as everyone on this board seems to know they hold their resale value extremely well. So I'd like to know what the dealer is likely to have into the vehicle via the black book auction value, and negotiate up from there. IIRC there were one or two folks around here in the business who had access to that info.
4
Posted on 8/29/16 at 12:05 pm to Martin Blank
the best way to estimate what a dealer has into a car is to look up trade in values for the car and assume the lowest price. Each deal and dealership is different, but that will give you a good approximation.
Also, always buy cars at the end of the month. They are hungry that time.
Also, always buy cars at the end of the month. They are hungry that time.
Posted on 8/29/16 at 12:37 pm to CoachChappy
That's one of many reasons I'm looking to pull the trigger now. This internet guy may only need to move one more unit to unlock some sort of bonus he's after.
How does the floor plan work on something like a trade-in? I am told the one I'm after is CPO but was an actual trade not an auction vehicle, but they've had it on the lot since June 11th. Surely there is a point where they're tired of paying interest on that thing just sitting there, and/or where they'd send it to an auction to cut their losses?
How does the floor plan work on something like a trade-in? I am told the one I'm after is CPO but was an actual trade not an auction vehicle, but they've had it on the lot since June 11th. Surely there is a point where they're tired of paying interest on that thing just sitting there, and/or where they'd send it to an auction to cut their losses?
Posted on 8/29/16 at 12:59 pm to Martin Blank
quote:
This internet guy may only need to move one more unit to unlock some sort of bonus he's after.
Good, where are you buying it from?
quote:
How does the floor plan work on something like a trade-in? I am told the one I'm after is CPO but was an actual trade not an auction vehicle, but they've had it on the lot since June 11th. Surely there is a point where they're tired of paying interest on that thing just sitting there, and/or where they'd send it to an auction to cut their losses?
The longer a vehicle stays on a lot, the more the company has to pay for it: insurance, lot space, keeping it clean, etc. So they want to move units quickly.
Posted on 8/29/16 at 1:08 pm to CoachChappy
Don't think I want to say the dealership, but it's in the NOLA metro area.
I know each dealer is different, but what's the general time frame for getting that car off their lot to an auction to cut their losses? 90 days seems like it would be logical, and that's coming up in September. And if that's the case, he comes out ahead selling to me just over what auction would pay him, even if it's ultimately a loss on the unit. Or am I off base there?
I know each dealer is different, but what's the general time frame for getting that car off their lot to an auction to cut their losses? 90 days seems like it would be logical, and that's coming up in September. And if that's the case, he comes out ahead selling to me just over what auction would pay him, even if it's ultimately a loss on the unit. Or am I off base there?
Posted on 8/29/16 at 1:22 pm to Martin Blank
quote:
And if that's the case, he comes out ahead selling to me just over what auction would pay him, even if it's ultimately a loss on the unit. Or am I off base there?
It really depends. If it is large volume place, they operate different than a small lot. If it is a clean unit with low mileage, they will not send it to auction, because those units sell. IMO- Ask him for a price, and start the negotiation. Do not pay more than you want to pay no matter what story he gives you.
Posted on 8/29/16 at 6:34 pm to Martin Blank
well a 2x4 with 42k-48k currently rough books for $26325. There's no telling what the dealer has in it, it would depend a lot on what the pay off is/was and how much equity is in it. Usually stuff that new will sale at dealer auction for around 70-80% of rough book if it's in real good shape. If dealer had to realistically put 30k in it he's likely not taking it to the auction.
Posted on 8/29/16 at 6:47 pm to carguymatt
Thanks carguymatt. Call this one a 2013 CPO with 34k miles on it, in showroom condition (presumably). So if that changes your calculations any, I'm all ears.
I hadn't thought about the upside down angle on it, but it seems to me they could make that up crushing some other unsuspecting soul with a paid off car that they get for 50 cents on the trade in dollar. I get why you'd factor it in for accounting purposes. But including any upside-down cost in the resale of that particular trade-in vehicle sounds like a good way to keep that thing on your lot, and pay interest on it for 90 days.
Of course, that may explain it.
I hadn't thought about the upside down angle on it, but it seems to me they could make that up crushing some other unsuspecting soul with a paid off car that they get for 50 cents on the trade in dollar. I get why you'd factor it in for accounting purposes. But including any upside-down cost in the resale of that particular trade-in vehicle sounds like a good way to keep that thing on your lot, and pay interest on it for 90 days.
Of course, that may explain it.
Posted on 8/29/16 at 9:31 pm to Martin Blank
The dealer won't have any problems financing a car like that. There's an arse for every seat and there's eventually always a strong buying arse for every seat. I wouldn't assume it's sitting on the lot accumulating interest. If it is, it may only be a few dollars a day. Don't let his personal financial situation factor in to what you think you want to do. If I were to just take a wild guess based on logistics plus what's most ideal for him, I would predict he's most likely in it around 25k. But that could range from 20k-32k too. One factor to consider is student grant money is coming available which may effect their decision to hold it and receive a larger down payment then it would in the dead of summer.
Blackbook shows it's got an average finance bank advance of 32k. That means ideally for him, If he's got 25k in it, he can get a 32k finance pay off from the new buyers bank, plus collect a trade in from the new buyer that he has zero invested in.
Blackbook shows it's got an average finance bank advance of 32k. That means ideally for him, If he's got 25k in it, he can get a 32k finance pay off from the new buyers bank, plus collect a trade in from the new buyer that he has zero invested in.
Posted on 8/29/16 at 9:33 pm to Martin Blank
Its a seller's market right now, at a Toyota dealership in BR, literally selling vehicles within $500 of internet, because if that person doesnt, then next person will. We are doing deals on new, but not going below cost and all that jazz like when it was a buyers market. So good luck trying to get a 'great deal' on anything in 200 miles, as it seems the same way in the area. And with this amount of volume, most sales/internet people have surpassed quota/bonus levels. But hey, does not hurt to try.
Posted on 8/29/16 at 9:39 pm to carguymatt
This. Grant money comes out depending on the state/institution between mid September/Late October.
Set a reasonable price for a vehicle and buy it. Don't worry what the dealer's situation is because you can't control it anyway.
Set a reasonable price for a vehicle and buy it. Don't worry what the dealer's situation is because you can't control it anyway.
Posted on 8/30/16 at 9:19 am to CoachRobertson
I think this may be what I'm running into a bit. Some of these NOLA dealers may be keeping their powder dry, and hoping that in 4-5 weeks a ton of BTR people will have total loss checks to come spend on a car. Tons of people don't have flood insurance on their house but nearly everyone has comp on their car. That's why I'm trying to play up the angle that I have my money now and can pull the trigger tomorrow if needed. Seems to me like money now beats a student grant or BTR flood check in a few weeks, doesn't it?
Another question - don't most dealers make more money on financing than the sale itself? If so, is it a good negotiating point to signal a willingness to finance with the dealer in an overheated environment like this? I'm pre-approved at 2.9% but if the dealer beats it I'd go with them. Does the sales guy himself get a kickback on the finance side, such that he'd have extra incentive to do a deal where he not only moves the unit, but also gets the buyer to finance in-house? Or does the F&I guy keep it all so that my sales rep doesn't care?
Another question - don't most dealers make more money on financing than the sale itself? If so, is it a good negotiating point to signal a willingness to finance with the dealer in an overheated environment like this? I'm pre-approved at 2.9% but if the dealer beats it I'd go with them. Does the sales guy himself get a kickback on the finance side, such that he'd have extra incentive to do a deal where he not only moves the unit, but also gets the buyer to finance in-house? Or does the F&I guy keep it all so that my sales rep doesn't care?
Posted on 8/30/16 at 9:58 am to Martin Blank
You are thinking a ton into this decision. Regardless if the salesperson and/or dealer makes none or tons of $, do you like the car and want to be a man and see what they will do? You never know until you are there to make an offer, and see the vehicle. They may want to hold onto vehicle, knowing the market will be flooded with buyers the next coming months, but they may like you and work a deal you like. If you are treated like dirt, they dont discount, and vehicle is dinged up and got gum dried to the dash, none of this matters.
Posted on 8/30/16 at 11:39 am to Martin Blank
The historic information you seek has little to no relevance since it is based on supply and demand conditions that no longer apply for the market you are now part of. You have to realize that the supply and demand for vehicles has changed dramatically, and prices will change accordingly.
Posted on 8/30/16 at 11:55 am to Martin Blank
Posted on 8/30/16 at 12:07 pm to TIGERsinceCONCEPTION
quote:
but they've had it on the lot since June 11th.
That unit has to go.
Posted on 8/31/16 at 10:47 am to Coach Guidry
You would think so, but they're barely budging on the price. Makes me think that either carguymatt is right and the floor plan interest on this vehicle isn't very high, or that they just have so much $$$ sunk into this 4Runner that they have a hard number they have to get to break even.
Good news is I have a reliable replacement car for a while, so I'm not in a position where I have to pull the trigger on a bad deal to avoid being on foot. It just blows my mind that they aren't more desperate to move a vehicle that they've had almost 90 days.
Good news is I have a reliable replacement car for a while, so I'm not in a position where I have to pull the trigger on a bad deal to avoid being on foot. It just blows my mind that they aren't more desperate to move a vehicle that they've had almost 90 days.
Posted on 8/31/16 at 10:57 am to Martin Blank
OP, IT IS A SELLERS MARKET NOW! So dealers are not wanting ti discount as they know there is tons of buyers in the market and they will be short on inventory sooner than later so make sure they make profit. Go to Texas or another market, or wait until December and after, to have it switch to a buyers market. Btw, we had 6 4runners at my dealership last friday, sold out as of Monday, so 4runners are in huge demand for them to move a penny
Posted on 8/31/16 at 11:08 am to CoachRobertson
quote:
OP, IT IS A SELLERS MARKET NOW!
I definitely understand that view point...but if the opposite approach is taken; it will yield higher returns in the long run. The ole tripping over dollars to save pennies saying goes into full force right now. Some dealerships are taking both approaches, and market share will definitely shift through out the end of the year. A customer may pay alot more now because they know they are in need; but that feeling of overpaying will not fade over time. I'm taking the latter approach.
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