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re: Rittenhouse day 9-Motions and jury instructions
Posted on 11/12/21 at 3:57 pm to BuckyCheese
Posted on 11/12/21 at 3:57 pm to BuckyCheese
If they paint KR as the aggressor, as long as the chomo reacted immediately then KR won't be able to claim self defense any longer
0
Posted on 11/12/21 at 3:59 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
the fact Pedodwarf chased him for what appears to be at least 80 feet or more
Spot on. If the argument is that he acted to defend Kazynski from a threat, that threat was removed when Kyle retreated.
Pedo should have ended pursuit as his goal was achieved.
Posted on 11/12/21 at 4:04 pm to BobBoucher
As an example, I know the self defense law does not allow you to pursue someone if they retreat from you.
Pedodwarf was certainly not in self defense mode when he was chasing Kyle down.
Pedodwarf was certainly not in self defense mode when he was chasing Kyle down.
Posted on 11/12/21 at 4:07 pm to BuckyCheese
So, is there any way possible to get this ruling reversed?
Posted on 11/12/21 at 4:14 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
I know self defense law does not allow you to pursue someone if they retreat from you.
To your point, when Kyle shot Bicep boy, Gaige immediately retreated in the opposite direction from Kyle.
It's frustrating that no defense lawyer in court pointed out that Kyle never finished Grosskreutz off in retreat as the prosecution would have you believe was KR's mission that night.
This post was edited on 11/12/21 at 4:15 pm
Posted on 11/12/21 at 4:21 pm to TDTOM
I believe so. I think he - the judge could change it Monday.
It would cause a poo storm and the communists would demand more time for preparation, but sure he could.
Hopefully he thinks this through now.
It would cause a poo storm and the communists would demand more time for preparation, but sure he could.
Hopefully he thinks this through now.
This post was edited on 11/12/21 at 4:22 pm
Posted on 11/12/21 at 4:24 pm to hogcard1964
Can the defense ask or does the judge have to do it on his own?
Posted on 11/12/21 at 4:27 pm to LSUFAITHFUL
quote:what about in the event of a mistrial?
think letting this picture in alone with no foundation could be reversible error. I think the courts have already very clearly found that insinuating that hiring a lawyer means you are guilty is a violation of the 5th amendment (which the prosecutor did here). So he would have some arguments.
Appeals are rarely successful though, so I wouldn’t want to bank on that if I’m the defendant.
Posted on 11/12/21 at 4:31 pm to Oddibe
quote:
what about in the event of a mistrial?
If there is a mistrial you just start over. There’s nothing to appeal.
Unless the judge dismisses with prejudice. Then prosecutors are appealing.
Posted on 11/12/21 at 4:32 pm to LSUFreek
quote:
It's frustrating that no defense lawyer in court pointed out that Kyle never finished Grosskreutz off in retreat as the prosecution would have you believe was KR's mission that night.
That’s what closing arguments are for. The lawyers don’t get to summarize the evidence until closing arguments.
Posted on 11/12/21 at 4:34 pm to TDTOM
quote:
Can the defense ask or does the judge have to do it on his own
Judge could do it on his own (called sua sponte). But unlikely without a defense motion.
Posted on 11/12/21 at 4:36 pm to LSUFAITHFUL
Ok. Does the defense get to try to convince him, or do they just ask him to re-consider?
Posted on 11/12/21 at 4:46 pm to TDTOM
They would have to ask for reconsideration.
But the evidence is already in I thought. Judge unlikely to reverse himself after jury already has seen it.
If i was the defense, I would make a motion before closing to get an order that the prosecutors can’t tell the jury it’s Kyle and that he’s pointing a gun, since no witnesses has established that.
I think that’s the best way to protect the defendant at this stage.
But the evidence is already in I thought. Judge unlikely to reverse himself after jury already has seen it.
If i was the defense, I would make a motion before closing to get an order that the prosecutors can’t tell the jury it’s Kyle and that he’s pointing a gun, since no witnesses has established that.
I think that’s the best way to protect the defendant at this stage.
This post was edited on 11/12/21 at 4:47 pm
Posted on 11/12/21 at 4:50 pm to LSUFreek
quote:
It's frustrating that no defense lawyer in court pointed out that Kyle never finished Grosskreutz off in retreat as the prosecution would have you believe was KR's mission that night.
The time to do that is closing.
Posted on 11/12/21 at 4:54 pm to BobBoucher
quote:Oh, believe me I'm not agreeing with that.quote:
the fact Pedodwarf chased him for what appears to be at least 80 feet or more
Spot on. If the argument is that he acted to defend Kazynski from a threat, that threat was removed when Kyle retreated.
Pedo should have ended pursuit as his goal was achieved.
I do think the prosecution wants to plant 2 seeds, both related to "provocation":
1) they hope some Karen in the jury believes Rittenhouse "provoked" the whole thing, by being out there with an AR. His presence agitated the conflict, like gas on a fire.
2) he swept or aimed at Zeminsky (sp?), "provoking" Rosenbaum to act.
I think they may be hoping a lot more for 1, I don't think there's much grounds for 2. If Rosenbaum chased him a long distance, you have to at some point say Rittenhouse had ceased his threatening behavior and withdrew from the situation.
Posted on 11/12/21 at 4:55 pm to LSUFAITHFUL
Honestly, I think the argument the prosecutor would have to make here is worse for his case. He's going to have to say Kyle provoked an attack, and Rosenbaum had the right to defend himself. But the jury is also going to hear that it can't be self defense if someone is retreating. His own argument proves Kyle is innocent, because he retreats after the point the prosecutor is talking about.
ETA: Maybe the defense is giving the prosecutor this rope to hang himself with?
ETA: Maybe the defense is giving the prosecutor this rope to hang himself with?
This post was edited on 11/12/21 at 4:56 pm
Posted on 11/12/21 at 4:56 pm to BuckyCheese
Is this prosecutor not tired of getting his fricking arse chewed
he’s been scolded in this trial more than I have in my 15 year military career
he’s been scolded in this trial more than I have in my 15 year military career
Posted on 11/12/21 at 4:58 pm to TDTOM
quote:
2) Provocation affects the privilege of self-defense as follows: (a) A person who engages in unlawful conduct of a type likely to provoke others to attack him or her and thereby does provoke an attack is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense against such attack, except when the attack which ensues is of a type causing the person engaging in the unlawful conduct to reasonably believe that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm. In such a case, the person engaging in the unlawful conduct is privileged to act in self-defense, but the person is not privileged to resort to the use of force intended or likely to cause death to the person's assailant unless the person reasonably believes he or she has exhausted every other reasonable means to escape from or otherwise avoid death or great bodily harm at the hands of his or her assailant. (b) The privilege lost by provocation may be regained if the actor in good faith withdraws from the fight and gives adequate notice thereof to his or her assailant. (c) A person who provokes an attack, whether by lawful or unlawful conduct, with intent to use such an attack as an excuse to cause death or great bodily harm to his or her assailant is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense.
Here’s the Wisconsin law on provocation. It means everything to the prosecution because without it, there’s no case. The defense needs to hammer home that he ran away first.
Posted on 11/12/21 at 4:59 pm to Jrv2damac
quote:
he’s been scolded in this trial more than I have in my 15 year military career
And yet he has pretty much gotten everything he has asked for that matters.
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