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re: Shapiro and Bishop Barren conversation
Posted on 12/16/18 at 10:38 pm to crazyatthecamp
Posted on 12/16/18 at 10:38 pm to crazyatthecamp
quote:The vast majority of people who have lived on this earth did so prior to Christianity coming into existence. Even in present day, more than half of people born in the world have very little exposure to Christianity. The idea that you have to follow rules that so few people in the history of humanity have been exposed to in order to reach heaven seems unrealistic (assuming heaven is real, although there is no real evidence).
1) He claims non Christians and atheists can enter heaven by following their conscience. (he mistakenly quotes John 3:15 in doing so). To me this is pure Christian Universalism and I do not think the official teachings of the Catholic Church support this.
1
Posted on 12/17/18 at 12:04 am to PointsInCase
On the surface this sounds good and just for God to set up.
But didn't the apostles go and preach to convert people? I mean why bother if everyone is saved anyways?
Also let's say this doctrine of universalism has merit... isn't there a distinction between atheists who reject Jesus and those who have never been exposed to Jesus?
In my view its either believe and get heaven or don't and get hell (pretty biblical)
And if you never received sufficient revelation to choose...maybe you are exempt...
(reasonable argument but not too biblical probably)
or wouldn't this be nice... maybe you get a second chance after death when the choices are staring you in the face...(the ultimate mulligan which seems like most people are banking on today) its just not supported in scripture though. (but neither is the trinity right?)
At the end of the day I look to follow Jesus teachings and scripture old and new for what it says and do my best to be sincere about it. At the same time I won't be so bold as to think I have it all figured out...
But it's a safer and more realistic bet in my head than believing we are here by a 1 in 75 trillion chance for no reason
But didn't the apostles go and preach to convert people? I mean why bother if everyone is saved anyways?
Also let's say this doctrine of universalism has merit... isn't there a distinction between atheists who reject Jesus and those who have never been exposed to Jesus?
In my view its either believe and get heaven or don't and get hell (pretty biblical)
And if you never received sufficient revelation to choose...maybe you are exempt...
(reasonable argument but not too biblical probably)
or wouldn't this be nice... maybe you get a second chance after death when the choices are staring you in the face...(the ultimate mulligan which seems like most people are banking on today) its just not supported in scripture though. (but neither is the trinity right?)
At the end of the day I look to follow Jesus teachings and scripture old and new for what it says and do my best to be sincere about it. At the same time I won't be so bold as to think I have it all figured out...
But it's a safer and more realistic bet in my head than believing we are here by a 1 in 75 trillion chance for no reason
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