Started By
Message
locked post

The mass freakout over Bret Stephen's climate change article on NYT

Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:26 am
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
69359 posts
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:26 am
What is wrong with anything he said? Why is NYT losing subscribers over this one article? Why is the liberal that hired him getting hate mail?

LINK
quote:


In the final stretch of last year’s presidential race, Hillary Clinton and her team thought they were, if not 100 percent right, then very close.

Right on the merits. Confident in their methods. Sure of their chances. When Bill Clinton suggested to his wife’s advisers that, considering Brexit, they might be underestimating the strength of the populist tide, the campaign manager, Robby Mook, had a bulletproof answer: The data run counter to your anecdotes.

Mook belonged to a new breed of political technologists with little time for retail campaigning and limitless faith in the power of models and algorithms to minimize uncertainty and all but predict the future.

There’s a lesson here. We live in a world in which data convey authority. But authority has a way of descending to certitude, and certitude begets hubris. From Robert McNamara to Lehman Brothers to Stronger Together, cautionary tales abound.


quote:

Last October, the Pew Research Center published a survey on the politics of climate change. Among its findings: Just 36 percent of Americans care “a great deal” about the subject. Despite 30 years of efforts by scientists, politicians and activists to raise the alarm, nearly two-thirds of Americans are either indifferent to or only somewhat bothered by the prospect of planetary calamity.

Why? The science is settled. The threat is clear. Isn’t this one instance, at least, where 100 percent of the truth resides on one side of the argument?

Well, not entirely. As Andrew Revkin wrote last year about his storied career as an environmental reporter at The Times, “I saw a widening gap between what scientists had been learning about global warming and what advocates were claiming as they pushed ever harder to pass climate legislation.” The science was generally scrupulous. The boosters who claimed its authority weren’t.


quote:

Anyone who has read the 2014 report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change knows that, while the modest (0.85 degrees Celsius, or about 1.5 degrees Fahrenheit) warming of the earth since 1880 is indisputable, as is the human influence on that warming, much else that passes as accepted fact is really a matter of probabilities. That’s especially true of the sophisticated but fallible models and simulations by which scientists attempt to peer into the climate future. To say this isn’t to deny science. It’s to acknowledge it honestly.


quote:

By now I can almost hear the heads exploding. They shouldn’t, because there’s another lesson here — this one for anyone who wants to advance the cause of good climate policy. As Revkin wisely noted, hyperbole about climate “not only didn’t fit the science at the time but could even be counterproductive if the hope was to engage a distracted public.”

Let me put it another way. Claiming total certainty about the science traduces the spirit of science and creates openings for doubt whenever a climate claim proves wrong. Demanding abrupt and expensive changes in public policy raises fair questions about ideological intentions. Censoriously asserting one’s moral superiority and treating skeptics as imbeciles and deplorables wins few converts.

None of this is to deny climate change or the possible severity of its consequences. But ordinary citizens also have a right to be skeptical of an overweening scientism. They know — as all environmentalists should — that history is littered with the human wreckage of scientific errors married to political power.


I see nothing in the article that is wrong or even offensive. He admits global warming exists, he admits man plays a role in causing it, and he suggests that the reason that it remains a rather tame issue to the average american is because of a "boy who cried wolf" type of situation.

quote:

Perhaps if there had been less certitude and more second-guessing in Clinton’s campaign, she’d be president. Perhaps if there were less certitude about our climate future, more Americans would be interested in having a reasoned conversation about it.


It's simply not in the spirit of science to assume that something is certain. The reaction to this piece from the left is a sign of the artificial appreciation they have for science. They shut their eyes and ears to people and ideas who question their certainty.

Dare I say Mr. Stephens, a noted anti-trump columnist, is a heretic in their eyes?
Posted by olddawg26
Member since Jan 2013
24633 posts
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:35 am to
I think it's silly for either side to be 100% sure of something. The people who scream about climate change dooming the planet in 10 years are just as useful in debate as the people saying humans have 0 affect on the climate. There's no use for any complete certainty or faith in the lab. Once you bring emotion or outside persuasion into the argument you're useless to the rational people in the middle making progress. The truth lies somewhere in the middle of these stances as it most usually does.
Posted by CamdenTiger
Member since Aug 2009
62513 posts
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:38 am to
Most people just know there's nothing they can do about it. So, they don't GAShite. Yell, and scream all you want, but changing you habits( entire life) for a possible one degree change over the next hundred years, just not convincing enough...
Posted by bonhoeffer45
Member since Jul 2016
4367 posts
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:45 am to
Eh, frick em if they can't handle diversity of opinion. Especially when it is merely just within a range of agreed upon positions you said are acceptable.

And you lose the privilege of claiming "liberalism" when you can't handle discussion of unpleasant opinions and deal with disagreement by trying to shame away instead of dismantling through empirical deconstruction. Its the opposite of science or liberalism.


...For context, this is the same paper that employed or gave a platform for Bill Kristol for over a decade.

This is something they do on the Op-ed side of the paper.

If you subscribed thinking you were getting a Daily Kos newsletter, then you should unsubscribe and go back to the safety of your carefully culled Facebook feed that doesn't pop up any triggering articles that may offend your beliefs.

I say this as someone that thinks climate change denial, and the groups and people that foster it or the complacency currently going on, is going to go down in history as one of the biggest dark spots in modern civilization. But you don't fix the problem through entrenchment, refusal to engage, anti-intellectual approaches, and slacktevism.
This post was edited on 5/3/17 at 12:48 am
Posted by aminhamenina014
Mobile, AL
Member since Mar 2016
80 posts
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:48 am to
People are freaking out because climate change is real and potentially destructive, and employing a crank denialist is not the best way to get diversity of opinion on the NYT editorial board. There are plenty of other viewpoints they could include that would be different from what they have.
Posted by texashorn
Member since May 2008
13122 posts
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:49 am to
quote:

he suggests that the reason that it remains a rather tame issue to the average american is because of a "boy who cried wolf" type of situation

Democrats screamed that we were running out of oil in the late 70s and late 2010s... followed soon thereafter by big oil booms producing gluts.
Posted by SirWinston
PNW
Member since Jul 2014
82180 posts
Posted on 5/3/17 at 7:34 am to
As a climate change skeptic myself, his argument about polls being wrong in the election is kind of lame
Posted by RedStickBR
Member since Sep 2009
14577 posts
Posted on 5/3/17 at 7:38 am to
With nothing else to put their faith in, the average atheist-environmentalist is always at risk of taking a religious approach to science. The only difference between them and a religious fanatic is they think they have an objective, tangible basis for devoiding themselves of even a shred of skepticism.
Posted by Iosh
Bureau of Interstellar Immigration
Member since Dec 2012
18941 posts
Posted on 5/3/17 at 7:48 am to
There's three separate reasons I think

(1) The article isn't that strong. It makes a gaseous, hand-wavey argument about uncertainty that essentially amounts to "people can be wrong about things," but also absolves the science itself. Since any decent climate paper is gonna have error bars and uncertainty ranges he confines his criticism to nameless "advocates" (Greenpeace types and Al Gore, one assumes). But "outcomes are uncertain" and "lots of laypeople get things wrong" don't get you much of anywhere, since uncertainty cuts two ways.

(2) Anyone familiar with Stephens' oeuvre at the WSJ knows he's being disingenuous. He had no problem attacking the science there, and often with the very certainty he decries in the "advocates." He flatly misstated some facts in the op-ed (e.g., confusing the global anomaly and NH anomaly). The sudden shift from "FAKE SCIENCE!" to "well, there's uncertainty" is baldly tactical and when you try to play to your audience too obviously it comes off as condescending.

(3) Stephens was putatively hired to bring ideological diversity to the NYT op-ed section. But NYT already had two Beltway NeverTrumps in Douthat and Brooks. So he doesn't actually add the value that they say he does and reinforces the idea that the "acceptable" MSM political spectrum runs from Hillary Clinton on the left to Marco Rubio on the right. Both Sanders and Trump style populists have a legitimate beef here.
This post was edited on 5/3/17 at 8:01 am
Posted by LSU Patrick
Member since Jan 2009
73548 posts
Posted on 5/3/17 at 8:45 am to
The left just gets nuttier each and every day.
Posted by Knight of Old
New Hampshire
Member since Jul 2007
11012 posts
Posted on 5/3/17 at 8:51 am to
Just for a moment, if any of the pen-pocket-protector-types can, forget about the science and look at the actual behavior of those at the forefront of this debate:

So we got Obama, exhibit #1 among the Climate Change AGW crowd -former leader of global super power, smartest-best-person-ever-to-have-existed according to some folk's mythologies. And what's he up to these days?

Last check, he and the wife were signing $65MM book deals, jet-setting around the world on private jets and yachts to hang with the regular types at ultra exclusive luxury resorts based mainly in tropical island paradises. (Guessing the carbon for that kind of stuff might lead to a so-called hotfoot)

Oh, and he's also charging $400K for 45 minute speeches on 'pertinent' topics (do ya think climate issues might be addressed in any of such speeches, ever?)

So, putting aside his burning a hole in the universe with all the carbon necessary to globe trot and be accommodated 'in style', what about all that money? What's he need it for, anyway?

Is he going to give it away to fund the solution that the Climate Change AGW crowd claims is required to save our planet? And, if he did, would however many millions he contributed even amount to a drop in the bucket against such an overwhelming problem? I mean, we're basically doomed to destruction via climate change in about 25 years -according to some of the (ever-changing) estimates thrown about, right?

And speaking of eminent doom, let's be generous and say he creates a foundation to save the planet and gives away a majority of his wealth. Do ya think that maybe, just maybe, just maybe, Obama is going to set up a little, itty-bitty bit of that dough for his posterity (Michelle, Malia, Shasha)? And how much you figure that might be? 5,10,20 million? More?

So here's the behavior question for all you geniuses pulling on your slide rulers (if you even know what those are or how to use one...): why would Obama burn up the atmosphere combusting jet fuel, or create a Sisyphean charity model that logically could't make a dent in such an 'enormous' global problem, or -and this is really the point- create an economic and generational safety net for his posterity, if he truly believed the whole world is going to hell post haste and within the lifetime of current generations -including his daughters????

Feel free to bring on "hope" and "synergy" but be sure you 'splain why any of those rationalizations accrue benefits specifically and exclusively to his line, if the problem threatens survival of the entire human species.

Do his actions indicate that he is really a true believer? And if he's not -former leader of the free world, had/has access to more data than imaginable, smartest-best-guy-who-can-also-shoot-hoops-etc-etc-ad nauseam-, why should anyone be?
Posted by MButterfly
Quantico
Member since Oct 2015
6860 posts
Posted on 5/3/17 at 8:56 am to
Well for certain, NASA says that the Antarctic is NOT melting. It's not contributing to the sea level, in fact it's taking away from it. It's growing


Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
57379 posts
Posted on 5/3/17 at 9:11 am to
quote:

Dare I say Mr. Stephens, a noted anti-trump columnist, is a heretic in their eyes?
Without doubt he's screwed. It's a nice piece, Thanks for posting.
first pageprev pagePage 1 of 1Next pagelast page
refresh

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookTwitterInstagram