re: Which party's stance on abortion repels more voters?

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There's a reason Christians are the majority, yet we still have legal abortion.

There's a reason Republicans are in control, yet we still have abortion.

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There are two primary reasons. One is that there hasn't been a Conservative majority that is fine with overturning the previous ruling as stare decisis is a big deal to a lot of justices. The second is having the right case to rule on. They can't just make up a random opinion and overrule existing law. They have to judge based on a case brought before them, so the right court needs the right case to overturn it.

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This is a losing case.

You have a better chance with the Jesus argument.

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It's not a losing case at all. The Constitution doesn't grant a right to privacy that supersedes the right to life, yet that is essentially what the court ruled in RvW. If a different court finds that the previous ruling did not have the benefit of understanding about the unborn that we do now or that it finds that the right of the mother stops at her body and not the body of the unborn, then the previous ruling can be overturned.

The important question is whether or not the unborn child has any rights under the Constitution. That's not necessarily a losing case, especially with advances in medicine that can keep a premature baby alive earlier and earlier.

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The law does state that if a pregnant woman gets murdered then it's double homicide. Why is that not the same with abortion

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It's not just that. They charge people with Feticide when a baby in utero is killed in a drunk driving accident or if a guy beats a women in the stomache to where it kills the baby.

How are they allowed to have a double standard?

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Nope. Not those. Not for my point, anyway.

Many Christians don't really care as much as they pretend that they care and politcians recognize that it's not a fight worth making when the majority of Americans support legal abortion.

Many Christians also side with the morally wrong/legally right arguments.

It won't happen. Sorry.

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While there are a lot of professing Christians who don't see abortion as a moral argument, there are many (or many more, depending on which segment of Christianity being polled) that are against it or think it should be more limited than it is today.

I'm sure the vast majority of Christians would approve of letting the individual states decide the issue as a compromise, but whether a majority agree with it or not, the Constitutionality of an issue is not based on majority opinion. It's why we are a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy.

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Yes, it is. Abortion will never be made illegal in our lifetimes. It's possible that some legislation will be passed to limit certain aspects, but it's not going to be outright banned. There simply aren't enough people that are that absolute about it.

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An outright ban would require require a SCOTUS decision which doesn't (or shouldn't) take in to account the prevailing opinion of the matter. If there were a decision that left the decision up to the states, I agree that there would not be an outright ban country-wide because there are individual states where a majority are in favor of it.

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And that's a good thing.

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I view abortion (where the life of the mother is not in danger) as taking innocent life at best and downright murder (according to God's moral law) at worst, and therefore I don't think it's a good thing to continue to allow the practice as it stands today.

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Here is another problem your position has. Y'all can't even agree on what kind of Christians you should be. The majority of Americans claim to be Christians, and at the same time a majority of Americans support legal abortion.

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I agree that this is certainly a problem. Christianity in the US is in desperate need of reformation as many profess to be Christians and don't even go to church regularly, read their Bibles regularly, pray regularly, or even know some of the basics of the Christian faith. That's not a problem with Christianity, though; that's a problem which people who claim to be Christians.

Regardless of that obvious rift (which exists within all ideologies and religions to varying degrees), a lot of ignorant Christians are for abortion because it is currently legal. Making some headway on getting the blanket legality removed should help people start thinking more seriously about the topic.

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Indeed, and it's still legal.

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It is, right now, for reasons discussed earlier. That has no bearing on whether it should be legal, which is why this discussion continues.

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You're entitled to think whatever you want. You'll still never see abortion made illegal.

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You're also entitled to think what you want but we may yet see a day where abortion is either made illegal or greatly limited. That's why this discussion needs to continue. We shouldn't throw our hands up and say "we lost" and let immorality continue when there are still ways to change course.

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This isn't going to happen. It's just not an important issue for many people, and even then, the majority support it.

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Uh, it's a really important issue for many people, as well. One reason why it isn't important for many others is because it's viewed as "settled". If that changes, you'll find a lot of people will start getting interested in the debate again.

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Sure it does. It's an indication of the last few centuries and how we got here. If anything, the support for legal abortion has grown.

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Not quite. Slavery was legal in our country for a long time before it was overturned.

You seem to be laboring under the misconception that morality is improving over time in our culture and that the laws are only getting better, not worse. At some point people will have enough and there will be some changes. The days of unhindered termination of human life are numbered.

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Fight it all you want. I'll continue to oppose that as well. There is no majority support for banning it, and many won't get behind change because of the absolutists on your side of the issue.

It's a losing effort and will remain so in our lifetimes

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Of course I'll continue to fight. It's what this discussion is about, after all. I have truth and righteousness on my side and that will always win out in the end.

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Uh, it's a really important issue for many people, as well. One reason why it isn't important for many others is because it's viewed as "settled".

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But not the majority.

Also, I don't think it's viewed as "settled."

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Slavery was legal in our country for a long time before it was overturned.

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Right. Slavery is currently illegal, while abortion is legal. Weird.

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I have truth and righteousness

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You have your truth and self-righteousness. Nothing more.

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It sure is a good thing truth is determined based on majority opinion, especially since public opinion (and who is in the majority) can change very quickly.

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We're talking about what's legal and what the government will do to change that. If you think politicians are going to risk losing votes over something they themselves don't even care about, you have a poorly informed view of reality.

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It's not weird at all as you seem to have missed my point.

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I didn't miss your point. I assert that it's irrelevant. You want the government to step in. I don't. It may happen someday, but it won't be while either of us is around to see it.

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I said I have truth (the truth) and righteousness (of God's law) on my side.

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Indeed, and that's your truth and self-rightousness. Your truth and your god are not my truth or my god. Deal with it.

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We're talking about what's legal and what the government will do to change that. If you think politicians are going to risk losing votes over something they themselves don't even care about, you have a poorly informed view of reality

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One of my first responses in this thread included the following:

If the courts can be tilted in favor of Constitutionality and the right case presented to the Court, it's possible RvW can be overturned and the issue sent back to the states to decide how each one wants to proceed or banned outright as unlawful termination of life (if the justices decide the unborn child has rights).

The courts can overturn RvW or at least send it back to the states to deal with it. That will take the legislators in congress out of it so that they don't have to worry about negative polling, or it can go back to the states to decide, where some state legislators will be more than happy to pen legislation outlawing or severely limiting it because their constituents will want that.

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I didn't miss your point. I assert that it's irrelevant. You want the government to step in. I don't.

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You made a point that abortion is still legal as a counter to me saying that majority rule doesn't dictate legality under the Constitution. I then responded that the legality of abortion is why the discussion musts continue, because it can be changed. You responded that it's current legality is pertinent because it shows how we got where we are today. I then said that slavery was once legal and is not, showing that "where we were" doesn't mean much when laws can change over time.

To summarize, saying "it's legal (now)" is a pointless assertion to make when we are discussing whether or not it should be legal. That's why people vote, why legislators debate the merits of legislation, and why the justices hear arguments and make rulings on laws and their impact on society. We are talking about possible change.

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It may happen someday, but it won't be while either of us is around to see it.

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Is this the point where I'm supposed to say "I don't care what you believe"?

I won't, though, because I recognize that you have opinions based on beliefs and you are expressing yours just like I express mine. Neither of us knows the future but with the way the SCOTUS may be changing in the next few years, we're closer than ever to getting a better (in my opinion) ruling on abortion.

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Indeed, and that's your truth and self-rightousness.

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You used "self-righteousness" again. I do not think it means what you think it means. What it does mean is that a person believes that they, in their own estimation, are righteous, or good. I do not believe this so your usage of the word is incorrect. I believe in God's righteousness, not my own.

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Your truth and your god are not my truth or my god.

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Reminds me of "he's not my President". The fact that you say "your truth" makes me think that you don't believe in absolute or universal truth. If so, then why do you even participate in debate since you are no more "right" than anyone else? Unless you are participating in intellectual masturbation, you must be trying to convince people that you are right and they are wrong which is something that is irrational in a worldview that denies absolute truth.

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Deal with it.

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I am dealing with it. It's why I'm participating in this discussion.

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You'll still never see abortion made illegal.

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You actually may be right about this. As long as the price of responsibility for a man is nothing more than half the cost of an abortion and a ride to the clinic, they will always be legal somewhere. Roe v Wade could be overturned tomorrow, but abortion will always be legal in California.

Women want equal rights in every area of life except abortion. Pro-choice for a man means nothing more than having the choice of sticking your dick in some woman's pussy. Your freedom of choice ends there...but not the woman's.
She has the choice of sticking you with 18 years of child support. You have zero choice. You stick your dick in a pussy, you just gave away all your rights to any "choice".

Men can be so fricking stupid.