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re: What fascinates you concerning WW2?

Posted on 2/24/17 at 9:41 am to
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64779 posts
Posted on 2/24/17 at 9:41 am to
quote:



I'm not so sure this is necessarily true. Stalin was a subscriber to realpolitik. I haven't seen much that has convinced me that he had real ambitions at launching a major war against Germany any time soon following the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact. The Soviets were, however, using their leverage to prod Germany to allow an expansion of Soviet influence deeper and deeper into Europe, which began to give the Germans a great sense of unease. While war from Hitler's viewpoint may very well have been inevitable, he always recognized that a two front war was not favorable. Eventually he wanted to crush the USSR, but Stalin did not recognize this as he viewed Hitler as being a pragmatist/subscriber to realpolitik like himself.

Stalin's true intentions are harder to gauge. Hitler was quite candid with his long term ambitions, Stalin much less so.


I've read before that Stalin had his own plans for "Lebensraum" in Europe pretty much just like Germans. The difference though is that while the Germans were ready to make their move by the end of the 1930's, the Soviets, thanks to Stalin's purges of the Red Army, would not be ready for large scale offensive operations until about 1943. The Germans knew this and deducted they could either sit back and wait for the Soviet hammer to fall in a few years or they could gamble and strike the Soviets before the Soviets were ready.

Now all that of course is historic theory only and next to impossible to prove thanks to Soviet secrecy. I think there is a very good chance this therory is very much true though.

And just so there is no question, I'm not trying to defend Germanyvor the war of conquest they launched. The Nazis were pure evil. I'm just pointing out the Soviets were just as bad.
Posted by ChewyDante
Member since Jan 2007
16927 posts
Posted on 2/24/17 at 10:41 am to
quote:

The Germans knew this and deducted they could either sit back and wait for the Soviet hammer to fall in a few years or they could gamble and strike the Soviets before the Soviets were ready.

Now all that of course is historic theory only and next to impossible to prove thanks to Soviet secrecy. I think there is a very good chance this therory is very much true though.


Right, we can never really know for sure, but what we definitely know is that the Germans saw it as a very real threat and thus it influenced their decisions.

We also know from Soviet aggression in Poland, Finland, and the Baltics, that the USSR was absolutely looking to expand their power and control whenever the opportunity presented itself. But with a victorious and immensely more powerful Germany than the Soviets could have predicted, at what point would they feel that launching such an attack could be successful? The Soviets had stumbled mightily against the Finns while the Germans were smashing historic European powers with relative ease, so it stands to reason they'd have a good bit of hesitancy in respect to jumping into conflict against Germany when their standing arrangement had been serving them so well.

quote:

would not be ready for large scale offensive operations until about 1943


One interesting question is, had the Germans thrown their full military might against the British in Africa and the Mediterranean from 1941-1943 instead of against the USSR, could they have secured that theater prior to a conflict with the Soviets? This, in effect, would have secured them to take the Soviets on with full force from that point forward. On the other hand, if the Soviets launched a surprise offensive operation in mass from their holdings in Poland and into nearby Romania, they had the potential to seize Berlin and Romania and destroy Germany's political state in short order.

When you look at the situation from the vantage point that Hitler and German leaders in that time period had to, it's very difficult to argue against the preemptive strike. The danger from a potential Soviet strike was just too great to risk.
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