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re: Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice Official Trailer

Posted on 4/17/15 at 3:08 pm to
Posted by joeyb147
Member since Jun 2009
16019 posts
Posted on 4/17/15 at 3:08 pm to
quote:

He's a creation of Jews that that was feeling the plight of fellow Jews in WW2
Superman: first published in Action Comics June 1938



WW2: Germany invades Poland September 1939 to start WW2


What am I missing here?

ETA: From wiki..
quote:

Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster, then students at Cleveland's Glenville High School, first conceived Superman as a bald telepathic villain bent on world domination. The character first appeared in "The Reign of the Superman", a short story from Science Fiction: The Advance Guard of Future Civilization #3, a fanzine published by Siegel in 1933. Siegel re-envisioned the character later that year as a hero bearing no resemblance to his villainous namesake, with Shuster visually modeling Superman on Douglas Fairbanks Sr. and his bespectacled alter ego, Clark Kent, on a combination of Harold Lloyd and Shuster himself, with the name "Clark Kent" derived from movie stars Clark Gable and Kent Taylor.
quote:

The pair re-envisioned the character, who became more of a hero in the mythic tradition, inspired by such characters as Samson and Hercules, who would right the wrongs of Siegel and Shuster's times, fighting for social justice and against tyranny. It was at this stage the costume was introduced, Siegel later recalling that they created a "kind of costume and let's give him a big S on his chest, and a cape, make him as colorful as we can and as distinctive as we can." The design was based in part on the costumes worn by characters in outer space settings published in pulp magazines, as well as comic strips such as Flash Gordon, and also partly suggested by the traditional circus strong-man outfit, which comprised a pair of shorts worn over a contrasting bodysuit.
quote:

Comics historians Gerard Jones and Brad Meltzer believe Siegel may have been inspired to create Superman because of the death of his father, Mitchell Siegel, an immigrant who owned a clothing store on Cleveland's near east side. He died during a robbery attempt in 1932, a year before Superman was created. Although Siegel never mentioned the death of his father in interviews, "It had to have an effect," argues Jones. "There's a connection there: the loss of a dad as a source for Superman." Meltzer states: "Your father dies in a robbery, and you invent a bulletproof man who becomes the world's greatest hero.
quote:

An influence on early Superman stories is the context of the Great Depression. The left-leaning perspective of creators Shuster and Siegel is reflected in early storylines. Superman took on the role of social activist, fighting crooked businessmen and politicians and demolishing run-down tenements. Comics scholar Roger Sabin sees this as a reflection of "the liberal idealism of Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal", with Shuster and Siegel initially portraying Superman as champion to a variety of social causes. In later Superman radio programs the character continued to take on such issues, tackling a version of the Ku Klux Klan in a 1946 broadcast, as well as combating anti-semitism and veteran discrimination.[ Siegel and Shuster's status as children of Jewish immigrants is also thought to have influenced their work. Timothy Aaron Pevey has argued that they crafted "an immigrant figure whose desire was to fit into American culture as an American", something Pevey believes taps into an important aspect of the American identity.
This post was edited on 4/17/15 at 3:17 pm
Posted by LoveThatMoney
Who knows where?
Member since Jan 2008
12268 posts
Posted on 4/17/15 at 3:11 pm to
quote:

Superman is one the greatest ideas humanity has ever produced in the last 100 years.


I mean, I'm one for hyperbole, but let's dial it back just a little.

quote:

He's a creation of Jews that that was feeling the plight of fellow Jews in WW2 and was designed and intended to be something that all of humanity should strive to be and that's a great human being


He was created by Jewish writers in an effort to channel their fears and frustrations against the oppression of their fellow Jews. I know that. Hence why I said he was conceived as a paragon of morality to beat up the ultimate evil being--Hitler. In many ways, Superman was propaganda.

quote:

I hate to tell you this but he is still being written that way today in the comics, cartoons in DC animated and live TV as recently as Smallville.


He is a far more rounded character today. Far more rounded. He has internal conflicts. As the audience, we are privy to these internal conflicts. This gives him depth. As originally conceived--the always do good symbol of justice--he was boring. He was flat. If you disagree, that's fine, but he was not always the well rounded, well conceived character of today, and he is portrayed, even in Smallville, as much more than a guy who is a symbol of all moral justice. In fact, Smallville does a pretty great job of showing the internal struggles of Clark through the drama of high school, the trauma of friends, the feeling of isolation and loneliness, and the conflict between what he wants to do and what he thinks is right (e.g. his friendship with Lex but his moral battles with what Lex does).

All of these conflicts are ideas that were spawned well after Superman's original conception with the exception, maybe, of alienation, which his Jewish writers would surely have projected into the character.

quote:

The rest of your post boils down to a bias against morally strong characters and if that's not your thing, make that plainly clear in a very forward way.


Did you read the post? I defended morally strong characters. What in tarnation are you talking about?
Posted by EthanL
Auburn,AL
Member since Oct 2011
6963 posts
Posted on 4/17/15 at 3:13 pm to
Don't take too much from Batman's "Do you bleed? You will", comments. This is a classic line from the comic books, and I think by now Supes and Bats are pals and he is just getting a blood sample.

Loving the statue of Supes with "False God" spray painted on it. Apparently some hero-worship has begun (along with the scene of soldiers seemingly bowing down to Supes)

A bigger version of statue under construction can be seen here

If its this big, must be an important part of movie right?
Posted by LoveThatMoney
Who knows where?
Member since Jan 2008
12268 posts
Posted on 4/17/15 at 3:13 pm to
quote:

He's a creation of Jews that that was feeling the plight of fellow Jews in WW2
Superman: first published in Action Comics June 1938


I think you're missing that the Nazis were persecuting the Jews before the start of WW2.
Posted by Sentrius
Fort Rozz
Member since Jun 2011
64757 posts
Posted on 4/17/15 at 3:17 pm to
quote:

I bet you've never even seen any Superman movie ever.


First 2 superman movies. I refuse to acknowledge the disaster that was 3 and 4.

Returns

Man of steel and I started the discussion thread here on this board.
Posted by LoveThatMoney
Who knows where?
Member since Jan 2008
12268 posts
Posted on 4/17/15 at 3:20 pm to
quote:

Loving the statue of Supes with "False God" spray painted on it. Apparently some hero-worship has begun (along with the scene of soldiers seemingly bowing down to Supes)


I'm wondering if Superman isn't getting a bit big for his britches at this point and, despite the long history of his character, is succumbing to pride to the level, almost, of hubris. Batman has to knock him down a peg, which he does... with dossiers.
Posted by Bluefin
The Banana Stand
Member since Apr 2011
13264 posts
Posted on 4/17/15 at 3:22 pm to
quote:

First 2 superman movies. I refuse to acknowledge the disaster that was 3 and 4.

Returns

Man of steel and I started the discussion thread here on this board.

Apparently my attempt at sarcasm fell flat on its face.
Posted by Green Chili Tiger
Lurking the Tin Foil Hat Board
Member since Jul 2009
47672 posts
Posted on 4/17/15 at 3:23 pm to
quote:

I refuse to acknowledge the disaster that was 3


Superman 3 existed solely to give us the cinematic masterpiece that is Office Space
Posted by Dr RC
The Money Pit
Member since Aug 2011
58128 posts
Posted on 4/17/15 at 3:27 pm to
quote:

. I refuse to acknowledge the disaster that was 3 and 4.


3 has some good stuff going on

its just trapped inside a really shitty Richard Prior movie
Posted by schexyoung
Deaf Valley
Member since May 2008
6535 posts
Posted on 4/17/15 at 3:31 pm to
quote:

Apparently my attempt at sarcasm fell flat on its face.


I was going to say something when I saw the responses, but figured oh well this will be fun.
Posted by Freauxzen
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
37412 posts
Posted on 4/17/15 at 3:36 pm to
quote:

I'm wondering if Superman isn't getting a bit big for his britches at this point and, despite the long history of his character, is succumbing to pride to the level, almost, of hubris. Batman has to knock him down a peg, which he does... with dossiers.


People will be scouring any released footage looking for the Bat-cabinet holding all of those files.
Posted by schexyoung
Deaf Valley
Member since May 2008
6535 posts
Posted on 4/17/15 at 3:37 pm to
On a serious note, I am pretty pumped to finally see a fully loaded non-Schumacher Bat-Cave on the big screen.
Posted by Green Chili Tiger
Lurking the Tin Foil Hat Board
Member since Jul 2009
47672 posts
Posted on 4/17/15 at 3:38 pm to
quote:

People will be scouring any released footage looking for the Bat-cabinet holding all of those files.


Posted by Sentrius
Fort Rozz
Member since Jun 2011
64757 posts
Posted on 4/17/15 at 3:39 pm to
quote:

I mean, I'm one for hyperbole, but let's dial it back just a little.


I believe it. I really do. Superman is the one that started it all for the comic book industry and that industry has been a staple of our childhoods and a fantastic medium to teach core and moral values to children and a refresher for adults. That's a positive for humanity and just one example.

Also, Superman's status right now is something that transcends even some of the the most well known pop culture. Even some bumfrick in Africa with national geographic titties knows who superman is and thinks of goodness when the name crosses the mind. Athletes in sports constantly say they want to be superman for his team and do the chest opening for touchdowns, 3 point shots and home runs. That is cultural dominance that spans the globe and something no other superhero can hope to match or will ever.

quote:

In many ways, Superman was propaganda.


And he still is today. Just not in the theater of war that he was born. In fact, Superman has long stayed away from war stories in the comics since WW2.

quote:

He is a far more rounded character today. Far more rounded. He has internal conflicts. As the audience, we are privy to these internal conflicts. This gives him depth. As originally conceived--the always do good symbol of justice--he was boring. He was flat. If you disagree, that's fine, but he was not always the well rounded, well conceived character of today, and he is portrayed, even in Smallville, as much more than a guy who is a symbol of all moral justice. In fact, Smallville does a pretty great job of showing the internal struggles of Clark through the drama of high school, the trauma of friends, the feeling of isolation and loneliness, and the conflict between what he wants to do and what he thinks is right (e.g. his friendship with Lex but his moral battles with what Lex does).


All right, I agree and I'll give you this.

quote:

Did you read the post? I defended morally strong characters.


Hmm, reading it again and I'm still chewing on it but I'll let it go for now.
Posted by Freauxzen
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
37412 posts
Posted on 4/17/15 at 3:39 pm to
Posted by Sentrius
Fort Rozz
Member since Jun 2011
64757 posts
Posted on 4/17/15 at 3:40 pm to
quote:

Apparently my attempt at sarcasm fell flat on its face.


It was way too serious.
Posted by LoveThatMoney
Who knows where?
Member since Jan 2008
12268 posts
Posted on 4/17/15 at 3:45 pm to


This is too much.
Posted by FairhopeTider
Fairhope, Alabama
Member since May 2012
20803 posts
Posted on 4/17/15 at 4:18 pm to
quote:

On a serious note, I am pretty pumped to finally see a fully loaded non-Schumacher Bat-Cave on the big screen.


Yeah, its a shame we never got to really see it in the Nolan movies. The Batcave at the end was cool but glossed over and left you with the question of "If he quit being Batman after Harvey died...then why did he finish building the Batcave?"

The cave in Batman 1989 was pretty cool.
This post was edited on 4/17/15 at 4:20 pm
Posted by schexyoung
Deaf Valley
Member since May 2008
6535 posts
Posted on 4/17/15 at 4:21 pm to
quote:

If he quit being Batman after Harvey died...then why did he finish building the Batcave?"


Barely anything was in it, and it was hinted that it has been under construction since the end of BB. There was a year in between BB and TDK. Given those factors and the fact that we were seeing the cave 8 years after TDK, it fit in with the story IMO.


I expect the BvS cave to be a huge technical marvel. Batman in this world never retired, and has been on the job for at least two decades. I could see a nod to the comics with a robin uniform in a glass case, or a giant penny/T-Rex.
This post was edited on 4/17/15 at 4:23 pm
Posted by joeyb147
Member since Jun 2009
16019 posts
Posted on 4/17/15 at 4:29 pm to
quote:

or a giant penny/T-Rex.
and the joker card

Would be cool to see.

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