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re: How badly does College Basketball need a change?

Posted on 3/2/15 at 11:07 pm to
Posted by RTR America
Memphis, TN
Member since Aug 2012
39600 posts
Posted on 3/2/15 at 11:07 pm to
quote:

the difference is that there used to be some filter down to midlevel Power 5 teams. Now, there barely is


Yeah I'm not seeing a difference.

1st round picks last year by school:
Kansas (2)
Duke (2)
Arizona (1)

Oklahoma State (1)
Kentucky (2)
Michigan (2)
Indiana (1)
Lousiana Lafayette (1)
Creighton (1)
UCLA (3)
NC State (1)
Michigan State (2)
Syracuse (1)
UCONN (1)
Washington (1)
Stanford (1)

*Bold to denote 1 and done players (Their were 9 in total)


quote:

Alex Lin was a terrible player for Maryland, but he still left after one year because, well, he is 7 feet tall and the NBA still values big guys.


This has been going on for years, even before the 1 and done rule. Trevor Ariza for example left after his freshman season (before the 1 and done rule) and fell to the 2nd round. Lin got drafted in the top 5. He's already starting to look like a very good pro in his second season.

quote:

And honestly, the entity hurt by that scenario was not really Maryland, but Lin. He had no business leaving that early.


He was projected top 5 pick. Every kid would have left for that.

quote:

most players will benefit from more developmental time in college.


Over 75% of these 1 and done guys really don't if you look at the actual guys that did leave.

The college game really doesn't do that great of a job at developing these players because they are so micromanaged by these college coaches.

Look at this:

LINK

The way you are looking at this is just completely wrong.

quote:

you obviously didn't watch basketball in the 80s. And since I know you did, I don't understand your argument there. There was more depth of talent, and blue chip talent did filter down more often.


The depth of talent is fine, what has changed is style of play. CBB is about to set a record for its slowest pace of play in the shot clock era.

quote:

Of course the one and done rule has an effect on college basketball.


I'm not saying it doesn't have an effect, but it is WAYYYYY down the list on issues CBB has right now. It truly only effects less than 2% of D1 schools.
Posted by Baloo
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
49645 posts
Posted on 3/3/15 at 9:40 am to
quote:

He was projected top 5 pick. Every kid would have left for that.

Of course. He should've left, but here's the thing: why the hell was he a top 5 pick? He was a terrible college player. He could barely keep his starting job, yet the NBA took him the lottery rounds? The NBA can't continually absorb bad players in its draft. They rely on the pipeline of college talent, and they currently have a system that spits out Alex Len as one of the best players. That's a horrifyingly poor talent base.

quote:

Over 75% of these 1 and done guys really don't if you look at the actual guys that did leave.

And those guys shouldn't go to college at all. Durant was wasting his time in college and was literally forced to go by rule. That's terrible as well. Take the top players out of the college pool and let them go straight to the pros. Players not good enough to go straight from high school, should then spend more than a year honing their skills.

I've got no problem with a terrific high school talent who is good enough to play pro ball to go play pro ball. I'm talking about players who also leave early who aren't good enough, and will get drummed out of the league because the NBA is not a developmental league, nor should it be.

quote:

The way you are looking at this is just completely wrong.

No, I look at it like a fan of the college game. You're looking at like a fan of the NBA (and also, the article doesn't say what you think it says: the very creme de la creme of talent are one and dones, and they only become star players 25% of the time... that's not a great return rate considering its the peak of the talent pool, and over a third are bit players or flops, so a one and done player is more likely to be a bit player than a star, yet you're arguing it hasn't hurt the talent pool?)

I think the NBA would benefit from better college talent, which is intuitively obvious, but more importantly to me: college would benefit. If you removed one and done players entirely and have them go straight to the NBA, the quality of college basketball would go up just do to lack of turnover in programs.

Barring injury, almost all players improve from their freshman to junior years, often dramtaically. College loses out on this developmental curve. I'd rather have a slightly less talented freshman who stays 3 years than a superstar who stays one. It's better for your program, as you get more production, and by year three, the player who stayed is, a lot of the time, as good as that freshman. Also, there's just the value of roster stability. Look at LSU football for an example of how roster volatility can hurt a talented roster.

Finally, it's better for fans. You learn to hate people. Hating Duke is not nearly as much fun as it once was, because a guy like Okafor is going to be gone in a year. Same with Jabari Parker before him. You don't get years of hating Shane Battier or whatever crappy white point guard he has to slap the floor. College sports thrive on those hatreds, and basketball is robbing itself of it. As soon as you learn a player, he's gone.

Now, I think the ancillary benefits would aid the NBA with increased talent, but that's not the primary reason to adopt the college baseball rules. It's better for the college game.

Also, for a great team, Kentucky isn't that great. That's the most depressing thing. They are destroying college basketball this season, and that roster would've gotten stomped by the great programs of the 1980s, just because those teams had MEN on them, not just a bunch of kids. It would be like a loaded AAA team full of future Hall of Famers playing a good MLB team. sure, the AAA team has more talent, but they will usually lose, based on where they are on the developmental curve.


ETA: I do acknowledge Brad Stevens is great, but Butler is just one team. Five midmajors seeded five or lower have made the Final Four in the past eight years. Prior to that, it was one in thirty years. Even removing Butler from the equation means that midmajors are seeing far more success. Now, do you think midmajors have gotten that much better recently or is it because big schools have gotten worse? My money is on B. If it's A, there's no problem. In fact, it's great.
This post was edited on 3/3/15 at 9:42 am
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