- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
Net Unrealized Appreciation (NUA) question/suggestions for tax benefits
Posted on 1/21/15 at 4:15 pm
Posted on 1/21/15 at 4:15 pm
Let's say a client, 40 y/o, was terminated and has $100,000 worth of company stock in an ESOP. The cost basis for the stock is $50,000, so the client has $50,000 net unrealized appreciation in the stock.
Let's also assume that the client needs to use $50,000 and he is in the 10% tax bracket.
The way I understand it, if the client takes a full distribution of the stock, in-kind, to a brokerage account, the $50,000 cost basis will be subject to an early-withdrawal penalty and treated as ordinary income immediately. If sold immediately, the $50,000 NUA will be treated as a long-term capital gain and is NOT subject to an early withdrawal penalty.
Question 1: If the stock is sold immediately after it is distributed to the brokerage account, can the client put $50,000 into an IRA such that it is treated as a 60-day rollover, and the $50,000 left will be treated as a long-term capital gain with an effective tax of 0% (10% tax bracket)? Basically, can the client have the best of both worlds?
Question 2: I've found some literature that says the client can roll $50,000 into an IRA directly from the ESOP, then distribute the other $50,000 to a brokerage account. Supposedly the rollover is treated as consisting first of the portion that is includible in gross income, so the $50,000 cost basis would be moved to the IRA. The $50,000 that is moved to the brokerage account will all be NUA, and the client can sell it immediately with long term capital gains treatment, effectively 0%. Is this correct?
Any previous experience with NUA would be greatly appreciated. Most of the literature I've found discusses absolutes of either a full liquidation or a full rollover, but nothing in between. These are the two most helpful things I've found...
LINK /
LINK
Let's also assume that the client needs to use $50,000 and he is in the 10% tax bracket.
The way I understand it, if the client takes a full distribution of the stock, in-kind, to a brokerage account, the $50,000 cost basis will be subject to an early-withdrawal penalty and treated as ordinary income immediately. If sold immediately, the $50,000 NUA will be treated as a long-term capital gain and is NOT subject to an early withdrawal penalty.
Question 1: If the stock is sold immediately after it is distributed to the brokerage account, can the client put $50,000 into an IRA such that it is treated as a 60-day rollover, and the $50,000 left will be treated as a long-term capital gain with an effective tax of 0% (10% tax bracket)? Basically, can the client have the best of both worlds?
Question 2: I've found some literature that says the client can roll $50,000 into an IRA directly from the ESOP, then distribute the other $50,000 to a brokerage account. Supposedly the rollover is treated as consisting first of the portion that is includible in gross income, so the $50,000 cost basis would be moved to the IRA. The $50,000 that is moved to the brokerage account will all be NUA, and the client can sell it immediately with long term capital gains treatment, effectively 0%. Is this correct?
Any previous experience with NUA would be greatly appreciated. Most of the literature I've found discusses absolutes of either a full liquidation or a full rollover, but nothing in between. These are the two most helpful things I've found...
LINK /
LINK
Posted on 1/21/15 at 5:51 pm to slackster
401(a) plan ( I think "a" is correct. I am rusty at this). Qualified plans. I don't believe capital gains tax is correct. All distributions taxed at current income tax rates of the account owner.
ESOP basics
ESOP distribution
ESOP basics
ESOP distribution
Posted on 1/22/15 at 10:46 am to slackster
It sounds like you are trying to find a form to overcome the economic substance of events. Economically, your client will be getting $50,000 from the ESOP for his current use. The intent of the law is that the $50,000 should first be the taxable portion of the ESOP value, and only then any NUA. I think the doctrine of substance over form precludes getting capital gains ahead of ordinary income. Here is one guy's take on the matter that supports my comments. LINK
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News