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re: Klinsmann wants us to play... nastier

Posted on 11/20/14 at 1:23 am to
Posted by cwil177
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2011
28450 posts
Posted on 11/20/14 at 1:23 am to
I think you're being a bit harsh. Clint was a consensus team of the year pick for the premier league when he lit it up in 2011-2012. That same year both Jozy and Bradley were easy picks for their team's most valuable player, and both in top 5 leagues. Donovan fit in really, really well in the prem. In his first month at the club during his first stint there he was their player of the month. That's a quick adaptation. Our beloved Stuart Holden was one of the best midfielders in the prem in that season before his injuries, and was still named Bolton's player of the season despite missing the last two months.

Americans can't hack it when given the chance? I'm not sure I believe that either (though I'm sure in some cases it's true, just as it is for talented players from every country). What kind of chance is the EPL purgatory Jozy has been put in? Hull and Sunderland? Those teams blow.

Sunderland last year lost their racist-arse coach (who still wanted Jozy) early in the season and got Poyet, who is also an idiot. In spite of Poyet they became the only team in PL history to be last at Christmas time and still avoid the drop. After losing 8-0 to Southampton (a game in which Jozy took no part, I gladly add), he went ahead and started 9 out of 11 players involved in that fiasco. The only two changes he made was adding two attacking players who were on the field for a thirty minute stretch in which Sunderland had five goals scored on them. This is a team who through that game had only crossed the ball four times and attempted three through balls all season. Tell me Jozy doesn't do better if an actual decent team with reliable service were to buy him. So what that he's shown he can compete at the World Cup? No one succeeds in dumpster fire teams like that. That's why they are dumpster fires. I'm not convinced Messi would even flourish on that team. It's because of this that I hate when people say that so and so has reached their peak. We can't even know that.

Drogba didn't play in a top five league until he was 25. The first team he had moderate success with was a team with this logo:

If he was American our fans would have said he sucks dick and will never see the field for a top side. Seriously, how much did Guingamp pay a crackhead to design that thing in MS paint? So maybe Jozy has peaked. It's possible. Maybe he has room to grow. Either way, none of us can know. That's why we discuss shite like this, because speculation can be fun sometimes. But the pessimism bugs me so much sometimes. It's soooooo... UnAmerican of us, it seems.

Just some more examples:
Steve Cherundolo is a Hannover legend.
José Mourinho can't understand why Bradley's not playing for a top team. But screw that guy what does he know about talent?
Geoff Cameron consistently looks like Stoke's smartest, and at times most technical player, even from the right back spot. I hate to out myself here as someone who watches Stoke, but hey, I do sometimes.

What's my point? My point is that I think if given the chance to play at better teams these guys could do so and do so well, assuming the fit was right.

These guys who supposedly aren't good enough to compete with the best got out of a World Cup group that included a Ghana side stacked with champions league players, Ronaldo and company, and the future world cup winners... Without the best player in our country's history and without the player around which we had molded our attack the entire four year cylcle.

So do I agree with you, Crazy? No. But I don't really disagree with you 100%, either.

Our overarching problem seems to be consistency. We have players who can do it at a high level, but can they do it consistently? Jurgen seems to be saying no, we can't right now. And that's alright. We are playing catch up by about a hundred years on some nations and we're not doing half bad. I'm glad we have a coach who can push our players and our team in ways that can be uncomfortable at times, but I think it's a push this team has been needing. I just hope he gets his tactics and team selection figured out because it's stressing me the frick out.

Rant: [OFF] | ON
Posted by Dijkstra
Michael J. Fox's location in time.
Member since Sep 2007
8738 posts
Posted on 11/20/14 at 3:32 am to
quote:

But the pessimism bugs me so much sometimes. It's soooooo... UnAmerican of us, it seems.



This describes my take on things for a while now. When did we become such miserable fans? Every other week there's some major drama or controversy created where none exists, and someone is always upset with someone else within the US Soccer community. It's making it all a little less fun. I know that comes with the territory when something grows as fast as the sport is growing here. I just don't want an "England misery" fate for us.

quote:

We have players who can do it at a high level, but can they do it consistently? Jurgen seems to be saying no, we can't right now. And that's alright. We are playing catch up by about a hundred years on some nations and we're not doing half bad. I'm glad we have a coach who can push our players and our team in ways that can be uncomfortable at times, but I think it's a push this team has been needing. I just hope he gets his tactics and team selection figured out because it's stressing me the frick out.


Again, I feel like you hit the nail on the head. I feel like it's a great thing to have a manager who is willing to be so blunt. He's merely saying what we've all observed. I like that he tells players to constantly push for more and even piss players off a little into playing better, even if it's just to prove him wrong. I like a manager who is willing to take heat to say real shite even if people don't want to hear it. It helps us realize where we truly are and what needs to change to move forward.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
36311 posts
Posted on 11/20/14 at 12:09 pm to
I understand where you are coming from, but I'm arguing against the bias. I certainly believe we have players that could do a job at a top club.

Clint was at a weird moment in his career. He was 30, didn't have a real position in AVB's system, and got a really great offer to come back to America. Bradley's situation also has more to do with money than talent. He wouldn't be able to make the money he's making in Toronto at most European clubs. It was a good move in terms of his finances, but I wish he waited until after the WC. Jozy has had shite luck, but I don't think he's good enough for the PL just yet, and I doubt he gets another chance there. He's still young but he doesn't do the little things right consistently to make me believe he'll ever come good.

We are just like most 2nd tier international teams. That's our ceiling until we get a bigger pool of better players.
Posted by TN Bhoy
San Antonio, TX
Member since Apr 2010
60589 posts
Posted on 11/20/14 at 12:53 pm to
quote:

Tell me Jozy doesn't do better if an actual decent team with reliable service were to buy him


cwill's entire philosophy: If Jozy fails, it's never his fault.

There's a reason Jozy can't get a game for Sunderland. There's a reason that nobody came in for him during transfer season. He's not good enough.
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