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re: How were German armored divisions so much more elite than their US counterparts

Posted on 10/25/14 at 9:58 am to
Posted by Champagne
Already Conquered USA.
Member since Oct 2007
48518 posts
Posted on 10/25/14 at 9:58 am to
quote:

The Panzer IV was considered to be the M4's counterpart, essential a light/medium tank.


I agree with all of the above.

I think that a very common misunderstanding about this topic relates to the quality of the US tanks vs. German tanks. Most would say that, overall, the German tanks were better. That's probably accurate.

But, most people stop right there and give the matter no further consideration. I say that because, the truth is that the US tanks were not as bad as the stories we all have heard.

One must really look at each model of US tank and compare it to a particular enemy tank. Also keep in mind that the "Sherman" was not just one kind of tank because it had many significant upgrades.

We know that even the Sherman 75mm that saw action in North Africa was good enough to penetrate the frontal armor of the German Panzer IV tank. The German panzer divisions in late 1942 were better than the US due to relative combat experience, not because of great superiority of equipment. Sure, the Tiger I tank made its first appearance in North Africa and it ruled there, but, it did not appear in great numbers.

The lowly US tank with the 37mm gun was a pretty good tank in North Africa in 1941. The British used it in combat at that time. The 37mm US tank was fast and that 37mm gun had excellent power for its light caliber.

So, talking about WW2 in generalities is fraught with peril, whether we are talking about tanks, armored divisions, etc. For example, we say that the German tanks were overall better. On the other hand, we know that the Sherman Easy Eight was probably a better tank than a mainstay of the German panzer forces: the Panzer IV.

I think that the movie "Fury" takes place mostly in 1945. If that is so, the relative quality of the US armor divisions vs. the German panzer divisions had flipped, because, by 1945 it is safe to say that the US armored divisions were better than their German counterparts. The German armed forces were used up and exhausted by then. The were short on equipment, tanks, fuel and ammo. They were short on experienced tank crews -- short on even TRAINED tank crews.

If you have a half-trained crew with very little experience, even the best tank in the world is not going to perform like the best tank in the world. Conversely, a crack tank crew in a mediocre tank is going to make that tank look like a great tank. This truism goes far to explain why the relative combat effectiveness of US vs. German armor units flipped between late 1942 and May, 1945.
This post was edited on 10/25/14 at 10:09 am
Posted by H.M. Murdock
B.A.'s Van
Member since Feb 2013
2113 posts
Posted on 10/25/14 at 10:08 am to
quote:

I think that the movie "Fury" takes place mostly in 1945


I did see the movie and SPOILER BELOW:
























Of course its a movie, but the platoon of shermans were sent to gaurd the crossroads. 4 tanks what appear to be Fury (M4e8) and 3 M4's are traveling down the road toward their objective. They are attacked by a hidden Tiger in a hull down position across a large field from Fury's 3 o clock position.

Of course the heavy Tiger then advances out of his perfect hull down position into a muddy field to engage the 3 remaining US tanks... i could not get over this. lol. A veteran Tiger commander would simply use his superior position and gun range rather then advance through a field likely get stuck. ahhh...movies.
This post was edited on 10/25/14 at 10:10 am
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