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re: The Death of Adulthood in American Culture - AO Scott

Posted on 9/11/14 at 2:11 pm to
Posted by Baloo
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
49645 posts
Posted on 9/11/14 at 2:11 pm to
AO Scott is full of shite.

Really, his complaint is that the cultural universe no longer centers on the taste of upper middle class, private school educated white men from the Northeast: ie, him. He tries to say that he's all in favor of attacking the patriarchy, but only if that attack is in a way he is comfortable with and in the polite methods he supports. His problem is that the rest of us no longer look up to our cultural betters. But let's actually get to his weak-arse argument...

quote:

Their deaths were (and will be) a culmination and a conclusion: Tony, Walter and Don are the last of the patriarchs.

Bull and shite.

Check out a list of the best shows on TV. You'll find plenty of shows with well-developed "adult" characters doing adult things: The Americans, Game of Thrones (sure, set in fantasy Medieval times but still adult patriarchs), Louie, Fargo, The Bridge, and House of Cards. We have powerful matriarchs in some of those shows as well as Parks and Rec, Orange is the New Black, Sons of Anarchy, and Orphan Black. The idea that there are no adults dealing with adult problems is utterly unfounded. The end of Mad Men is no more the end of an era than the end of the Sopranos was, no matter how much the show strokes your elitist ego.

quote:

I will admit to feeling a twinge of disapproval when I see one of my peers clutching a volume of “Harry Potter” or “The Hunger Games.” I’m not necessarily proud of this reaction. As cultural critique, it belongs in the same category as the sneer I can’t quite suppress when I see guys my age (pushing 50) riding skateboards or wearing shorts and flip-flops, or the reflexive arching of my eyebrows when I notice that a woman at the office has plastic butterfly barrettes in her hair.


You're a snob, and your reflex action is to look down on people who don't share your highbrow tastes. You probably hated 80s horror movies as exploitative and horrible before you appraised them later in life as true examples of the cinematic form, once they acquired the appropriate critical cachet. I'm going to keep wearing shorts, BTW, because it's still 100 degrees outside.

But the idea that a YA book is beneath you is absurd. Harry Potter is just good yarn, told well. And I'd argue it's "better for you" culturally than a lot of shitty books aimed at adults (Dan Brown, anyone?). Sure your diet ONLY be YA books? Probably not. But I can enjoy both Upstream Color and The Avengers, too. I loved both A Separation AND Pacific Rim. There's been a breakdown in viewing habits, and that's a good thing. For Christ's sake, a graphic novel has won the Pulitzer Prize for literature. Cat's out of the bag.

quote:

Comic-book movies, family-friendly animated adventures, tales of adolescent heroism and comedies of arrested development do not only make up the commercial center of 21st-century Hollywood. They are its artistic heart.

In summer, yes. You know what? I wouldn't mind some more serious films aimed at adults in the summer. But you know what? 1994 is one of the greatest years in film, and the box office was dominated by adolescent heroism (True Lies, Speed), animated or family fare (Lion King, Santa Clause), and arrested development (The Mask, Dumb and Dumberer). OK, comic book films are a new trend, but they pushed out most action films. Even with those huge movies paying the bills, Hollywood cranked out Pulp Fiction, Shawshank, Leon, Ed Wood, Clerks, Quiz Show, Heavenly Creatures, Shallow Grave, Priest, etc.) It's not one or the other. The big movies pay for the little ones. It's always been this way. And you know what? Some of those big movies are great, too.

quote:

Before we answer that, an inquest may be in order. Who or what killed adulthood? Was the death slow or sudden? Natural or violent? The work of one culprit or many? Justifiable homicide or coldblooded murder?

It's not dead, so the answers are: no one, no speed at all, completely artificial, no culprit, and unjustified. You're welcome.

quote:

From the start, American culture was notably resistant to the claims of parental authority and the imperatives of adulthood.

This is where he points out his entire thesis is full of shite, and that's without getting into 1950s/60s literature and 70s/80s film. I hate On the Road, too, but come on. The book is over half a century old. Arguing that adulthood is not portrayed in American art is being a tad late to the party.

quote:

We devolve from Lenny Bruce to Adam Sandler, from “Catch-22” to “The Hangover,” from “Goodbye, Columbus” to “The Forty-Year-Old Virgin.”

Talk about false equivalencies. Lenny Bruce was a man-child himself, but how about we compare him to the current top comic, Louis CK? Adam Sandler is more of the progression from Jerry Lee Lewis, and I think that's a step forward. Catch-22 is a movie about the absurdity of war, so how about we compare it to something like Jarhead? And I'm going to get into this... but AO Scott's slander of Judd Apatow is completely unfounded. Let's see what he says:

quote:

In Sandler’s early, funny movies, and in many others released under Apatow’s imprimatur, women are confined to narrowly archetypal roles. Nice mommies and patient wives are idealized; it’s a relief to get away from them and a comfort to know that they’ll take care of you when you return. Mean mommies and controlling wives are ridiculed and humiliated. Sexually assertive women are in need of being shamed and tamed. True contentment is only found with your friends, who are into porn and “Star Wars” and weed and video games and all the stuff that girls and parents just don’t understand.


Apatow has directed four films: This is 40, Funny People, Knocked Up, and 40 Year Old Virgin. Which women fit these descriptions, other than the Leslie Mann character in This is 40, who at least is a well-rounded character who has her own voice? I think 40-Year Old Virgin clearly mocks the man boys in that film, and the sexually adventurous women are not punihsed. Catherine Keener is rewarded with a fundamentally decent husband in Steve Carrell. Her daughter is not shamed for wanting to have sex. Even Elizabeth Banks "freak" turns out to be perfect for Seth Rogan, who ends up dating her without judgment from the film. Apatow also directed Freaks and Geeks, which is largely sympathetic to the parents and even the friggin' gym teacher's POV.

But look at the movies/TV shows he has produced: feminsit fare with strong women like Girls, Bridesmaids, and Forgetting Sarah Marshall. Anchorman's central conceit is that the woman is the only one who is competent, held back by the patriarchy. Even his bro comedies Superbad and Step Brothers are largely sympathetic to the women. Calling Apatow some purveyor of sexist tripe is nothing short of slander. The guy likes dick jokes. So what?

quote:

Who is the most visible self-avowed feminist in the world right now? If your answer is anyone other than Beyoncé (fig. 6), you might be trying a little too hard to be contrarian.

If I were to make a list of feminists, Beyonce would rank about one millionth. Are you kidding me? In an article full of dumb, unsupportable statements, this one takes the cake. He then goes on to talk up Lena Dunham, who is a high profile feminist, working on a show produced by Judd Apatow.

In short, Scott is raging that we don't respect his opinion anymore. And he's right... we don't.
Posted by Baloo
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
49645 posts
Posted on 9/12/14 at 9:09 am to
The fact no one replied to my post tells me that I'm right. Your silence will be interpreted as consent.

Thank you. Tip your waitresses.
Posted by rondo
Worst. Poster. Evar.
Member since Jan 2004
77416 posts
Posted on 9/12/14 at 10:06 am to
you took a post that was tl;dr and made it longer.
Posted by Freauxzen
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
37492 posts
Posted on 9/12/14 at 1:59 pm to
quote:

AO Scott is full of shite.


Not sold, but yeah this too. I think he makes a couple of good points.

quote:

Really, his complaint is that the cultural universe no longer centers on the taste of upper middle class, private school educated white men from the Northeast: ie, him. He tries to say that he's all in favor of attacking the patriarchy, but only if that attack is in a way he is comfortable with and in the polite methods he supports. His problem is that the rest of us no longer look up to our cultural betters. But let's actually get to his weak-arse argument...


True. But he's also ok with it. Outside of the last line he's celebrating this "change," as a weak a change as it is.

His big hole, for me, that while Scott tries to examine the whole of culture starting from the conception of the US, he's making the assumptions that the state being achieved in culture now is "right," or "here to stay." In all this talk of upheaval the only natural next step is...another upheaval. Even if this "post-patriarchal =" culture becomes the norm, we're only destined to look at post-patriarchy as post-patriarchy and find ways to subvert it again.

Post-partiarchy can become "the man," too.


Anyways, I'll get to that.

quote:

Bull and shite.

Check out a list of the best shows on TV. You'll find plenty of shows with well-developed "adult" characters doing adult things: The Americans, Game of Thrones (sure, set in fantasy Medieval times but still adult patriarchs), Louie, Fargo, The Bridge, and House of Cards. We have powerful matriarchs in some of those shows as well as Parks and Rec, Orange is the New Black, Sons of Anarchy, and Orphan Black. The idea that there are no adults dealing with adult problems is utterly unfounded. The end of Mad Men is no more the end of an era than the end of the Sopranos was, no matter how much the show strokes your elitist ego.



Bingo. I can't believe he whiffed on Orange, that's maybe the most obvious example of A) High Quality B) Tackling the Patriarchy Thematically C) Strong all-female cast.

At the same time, even modern stories are trending toward interconnected myth-like structure, that's about as adult as you can get. He simply leaves out too many pieces to make a complete examination.

quote:

You're a snob, and your reflex action is to look down on people who don't share your highbrow tastes. You probably hated 80s horror movies as exploitative and horrible before you appraised them later in life as true examples of the cinematic form, once they acquired the appropriate critical cachet. I'm going to keep wearing shorts, BTW, because it's still 100 degrees outside.

But the idea that a YA book is beneath you is absurd. Harry Potter is just good yarn, told well. And I'd argue it's "better for you" culturally than a lot of shitty books aimed at adults (Dan Brown, anyone?). Sure your diet ONLY be YA books? Probably not. But I can enjoy both Upstream Color and The Avengers, too. I loved both A Separation AND Pacific Rim. There's been a breakdown in viewing habits, and that's a good thing. For Christ's sake, a graphic novel has won the Pulitzer Prize for literature. Cat's out of the bag.


It's a good thing, but I think this is at least one of the places where he gets close to something to say. Look, I mean there has to be a REASON why we see more postponed adulthood (guilty here). While it's good, it just may effect culture in some way. With all of these things happening kids are getting married later, owning houses later, having kids later, etc.

quote:

In summer, yes. You know what? I wouldn't mind some more serious films aimed at adults in the summer. But you know what? 1994 is one of the greatest years in film, and the box office was dominated by adolescent heroism (True Lies, Speed), animated or family fare (Lion King, Santa Clause), and arrested development (The Mask, Dumb and Dumberer). OK, comic book films are a new trend, but they pushed out most action films. Even with those huge movies paying the bills, Hollywood cranked out Pulp Fiction, Shawshank, Leon, Ed Wood, Clerks, Quiz Show, Heavenly Creatures, Shallow Grave, Priest, etc.) It's not one or the other. The big movies pay for the little ones. It's always been this way. And you know what? Some of those big movies are great, too.


Exactly. He's just blasting blockbusters, and blockbusters are well, blockbusters. Those films have always existed. Granted back in the 1940s every film was either a family film or a drama, we're just more diverse now and the things that attract the widest set of viewers are ALWAYS going to be more popular. That's just simple math.

Your high-impact, R-rated drama as blockbuster is an ultra-rare bird.

quote:

This is where he points out his entire thesis is full of shite, and that's without getting into 1950s/60s literature and 70s/80s film. I hate On the Road, too, but come on. The book is over half a century old. Arguing that adulthood is not portrayed in American art is being a tad late to the party.


He keeps saying adulthood, and I think he means authority, hence my first point about the idea of "upheaval," or revolt. Adulthood and authority or related, but different concepts. America isn't combative because it doesn't like. So while i think he's right in that America has always been fixating on this idea, he's got the wrong form of the idea. It's authority. (Generally seen to be the patriarchy, but see above, we're bound to go at it again.)

Talking about American Fiction as perpetual YA Fiction just about ticked me off. Mostly because the Short Story is one of the most innovative movements in literature and, as an art form, it's American by default.
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