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Message
re: Shigeru Miyamoto has some harsh words for casual gamers
Posted on 8/28/14 at 7:32 am to GalvoAg
Posted on 8/28/14 at 7:32 am to GalvoAg
quote:I wouldn't compare those to CoD. Those titles usually have 1, maybe two releases a generation. Hell, we've only had 4 Smash Bros. games since 1999.
So basically Mario, Mario Kart, Zelda, DK, Mario Party and Smash?
Mario Party is probably a good comparison. That shite is on something like MP 10.
1
Posted on 8/28/14 at 7:36 am to Scruffy
But they are pretty much "the same thing over and over again".
I love Nintendo but they rehash like the rest of them, still think they are some of the best games on the market.
I love Nintendo but they rehash like the rest of them, still think they are some of the best games on the market.
Posted on 8/28/14 at 7:44 am to GalvoAg
Lectures about advanced games
Proceeds to make some of the easiest games made
Proceeds to make some of the easiest games made
Posted on 8/28/14 at 7:57 am to GalvoAg
quote:
People play the games they like
most things are consumer driven...but consumers aren't the creative force. They know what they like, but they don't know what they will like
Posted on 8/28/14 at 7:58 am to GalvoAg
quote:
But they are pretty much "the same thing over and over again".
they're not...the devil is in the details
Posted on 8/28/14 at 8:06 am to DelU249
The Devils Third? We don't even know if that game is any good. I'm not going to call it bad but it doesn't look great either. Splatoon looks better than that and is fresh from them, and even that game came close to being just another Mario.
I'm talking about the main Nintendo games that everyone plays, the ones that go back to when we were kids.
I'm talking about the main Nintendo games that everyone plays, the ones that go back to when we were kids.
This post was edited on 8/28/14 at 8:18 am
Posted on 8/28/14 at 8:09 am to GalvoAg
quote:
I'm talking about the main Nintendo games that everyone plays
yes and they vary differently and Nintendo really goes over the top creatively with each one to make it unique, cutting edge, etc.
level design
gameplay mechanics
features
the only thing that is the same is the story, and if you're looking for variety in the hackneyed "kidnapped princess" genre, you're in for a long wait
Posted on 8/28/14 at 8:18 am to FourThreeForty
"Casual" gamers is such a douchey term IMO. Vidya games are serious business
Posted on 8/28/14 at 8:19 am to DelU249
quote:
I've said for years this is nintendo's attitude towards all gamers
With the exception of TP they don't make games based on consumer demand...they know what the consumer wants better than he/she does...and I like that
This.
I think it's more like him saying, "I know they will love our games, If they just give them a shot!"
And he's probably right on average. Nintendo games connect in a way most games don't.
Sales are probably a little frustrating, and it has to be disturbing for any game creator for a general population to see candy crush making bank just toying with psychological principles.
This post was edited on 8/28/14 at 8:20 am
Posted on 8/28/14 at 8:25 am to Freauxzen
quote:
"I know they will love our games, If they just give them a shot!"
yeah...and it's true. rabble rabble we want next gen looking Zelda, darker, realistic rabble rabble
then they all complained when that's exactly what they got...and OoT remake
people don't want to play the Zelda game where he's flying on a bird and the overworld is a puzzle, that's not the same shite I got last time
I think there is added frustration because look at his track record...he's the john lennon of video games. Perfect reviews, classic titles, so much creativity and sweat put out into one title...then ea or whoever shits out another COD and they can't make them fast enough
I bet it is very frustrating. He sees the entertainment in things beyond the graphics and intricate stories
gameplay, creativity, art design...he's an artist IMO
Posted on 8/28/14 at 8:32 am to oauron
quote:
Why don't you source the actual interview and article? It's far more interesting than the small snippet you posted.
Once you read the article it gets you a better idea what he is talking about. Sounds like Nintendo is changing their direction a little bit. It makes me wonder what they will do with their next hardware even though that's a few years off.
It's a tough market, Look at Zelda 2. It was different and innovative but people were upset because it wasn't more of the same. Now people look back and how awesome it was just like Wind Waker. Being innovative doesn't always pay off in the industry and that has to be very frustrating for developers when all you hear is "OMG this game isn't 1080p!"
Posted on 8/28/14 at 8:42 am to Gnar Cat21
quote:
Casual" gamers is such a douchey term IMO
I don't think miyamoto defines "casual gamer" by industry terms or by popular vernacular.
The statement in the OP applies to 95% of gamers, and I've felt that has been Nintendo's attitude for almost 2 decades now
Posted on 8/28/14 at 8:45 am to Mystery
quote:
Thanks. A couple of the earlier post had me wondering if I was going crazy.
No problem. Just waiting on OP to try and justify his trolling.
quote:
Once you read the article it gets you a better idea what he is talking about. Sounds like Nintendo is changing their direction a little bit. It makes me wonder what they will do with their next hardware even though that's a few years off.
It's a tough market, Look at Zelda 2. It was different and innovative but people were upset because it wasn't more of the same. Now people look back and how awesome it was just like Wind Waker. Being innovative doesn't always pay off in the industry and that has to be very frustrating for developers when all you hear is "OMG this game isn't 1080p!"
Well, Nintendo is being forced to change their direction, because their blue ocean strategy has completely failed. As far as innovation, you either have to give people something they're dying to try or do enough changes to not change the soul of the game. They've been able to do both last generation, but were unsuccessful at accomplishing the first.
This post was edited on 8/28/14 at 8:51 am
Posted on 8/28/14 at 8:52 am to DelU249
quote:
I think there is added frustration because look at his track record...he's the john lennon of video games. Perfect reviews, classic titles, so much creativity and sweat put out into one title...then ea or whoever shits out another COD and they can't make them fast enough
I bet it is very frustrating. He sees the entertainment in things beyond the graphics and intricate stories
gameplay, creativity, art design...he's an artist IMO
This.
Well said.
And I think there are really 4 groups when you break it down:
The Faux-Mature Game: Collections stacked with violent games, FPSs, sports games, and racing games. Enjoys the occasional indie if enough people say it's good. That's it. Owns a PS4 or One, probably a 3 or a 360, most likely doesn't care about PC gaming.
The Casual: Had a Wii, lives on a Smart Phone or Tablet now. Loves Candy Crush and the like. Incessant Facebook game invites.
The Non-Gamer: Doesn't play games, unless provoked. Probably doesn't own anything. Might have Jetpack Joyride. Maybe played a Mario Kart or something.
The Gamer: Probably has at least one console and a PC. Collections have Platformers, RPGs, Fighting Games, Collections, a couple of sports games, maybe a GTA or Saints Row because they can be a good break from harder stuff. Loves Steam and Indie Games, and loses a few paychecks to it every year. Enjoys anything and everything.
The problem: Casuals and Non-Gamers are just out of reach for the investment of a console. I think Miyamoto feels that. He knows they would have fun, they bought the Wii in droves, but they just left. Like you said, the Faux Mature gamer who injects a CoD every year is also frustrating to serve. Creativity often doesn't matter, just slick production values, "cool marketing" and a non-kiddy theme. Boom. Homefront. (what a crap game.).
Nintendo's problem is that they used to serve the gamer along with the casual, but their need to differentiate through price and slowing the hardware escalation made them unattractive to any gamer who DID value faster hardware more than average. They were forced into a wall because they could not invest the amount of money and take the losses of a Sony or Microsoft. Selling an expensive console is difficult if your customer base includes families and kids, and honestly, the Japanese who already live in a ridiculously expensive environment. They are extremely concerned with Power, Power Usage, Cost, Console Size, etc.
Posted on 8/28/14 at 8:53 am to Freauxzen
Nevermind.
This post was edited on 8/28/14 at 8:54 am
Posted on 8/28/14 at 8:58 am to Freauxzen
quote:
They were forced into a wall because they could not invest the amount of money and take the losses of a Sony or Microsoft
They may actually be in a better position to take that loss than the other 2.
Part of that problem is the price of the Wii U. Yes it is cheaper than PS4/Xbox1 but not as cheap as the wii was to those 'casuals' aren't as interested. You can also add the fact that the those casual people don't know the wii u exists.
Nintendo has to make a lot of changes. This doesn't mean they can't, but there is no 1 simple solution.
Posted on 8/28/14 at 9:02 am to Mr Gardoki
quote:
They may actually be in a better position to take that loss than the other 2.
They have massive cash reserves, but they don't have other businesses to set off losses.
Microsoft's game division lives in losses, but the company itself is so profitable that it doesn't matter.
But yeah they're financially conservative to a fault.
quote:
Part of that problem is the price of the Wii U. Yes it is cheaper than PS4/Xbox1 but not as cheap as the wii was to those 'casuals' aren't as interested. You can also add the fact that the those casual people don't know the wii u exists.
They overestimated the mental investment of casual gamers. They thought people would just "get it," what the Wii U was, and their marketing did nothing to differentiate. That was a HUGE mistake.
Gamers know the specs of consoles down to processing power, ram, resolution capabilities long before a console launches. The other crowd, not so much.
quote:
Nintendo has to make a lot of changes. This doesn't mean they can't, but there is no 1 simple solution.
Well, it's as simple a the next console being built on the same architecture of the others and making something equally as powerful. That's really the only way back.
Either that or they contract even further, saving more money and basically selling a Nintendo console to sell Nintendo games only. With UbiSoft publicly dropping support, EA out, Nintendo has almost nothing left.
Posted on 8/28/14 at 9:06 am to Freauxzen
quote:
They have massive cash reserves, but they don't have other businesses to set off losses.
Microsoft's game division lives in losses, but the company itself is so profitable that it doesn't matter.
But yeah they're financially conservative to a fault.
Well not Sony
Microsoft has a ton of money but it's not always easy for them to convince their shareholders to take a loss. That's my point.
quote:
Well, it's as simple a the next console being built on the same architecture of the others and making something equally as powerful. That's really the only way back.
Either that or they contract even further, saving more money and basically selling a Nintendo console to sell Nintendo games only. With UbiSoft publicly dropping support, EA out, Nintendo has almost nothing left.
They have to pick a direction for sure. Sell a cheap as console and make cheap casual party games, or be competitive in hardware. 3rd parties won't just run over though, they will have to earn them back. There is still some bad blood with them going back to the NES days when Nintendo had them all by the balls. I question if the market has room for a 3rd hardcore console though. I just don't know.
Posted on 8/28/14 at 9:08 am to Freauxzen
quote:
The Faux-Mature Game: Collections stacked with violent games, FPSs, sports games, and racing games. Enjoys the occasional indie if enough people say it's good. That's it. Owns a PS4 or One, probably a 3 or a 360, most likely doesn't care about PC gaming.
The Casual: Had a Wii, lives on a Smart Phone or Tablet now. Loves Candy Crush and the like. Incessant Facebook game invites.
The Non-Gamer: Doesn't play games, unless provoked. Probably doesn't own anything. Might have Jetpack Joyride. Maybe played a Mario Kart or something.
The Gamer: Probably has at least one console and a PC. Collections have Platformers, RPGs, Fighting Games, Collections, a couple of sports games, maybe a GTA or Saints Row because they can be a good break from harder stuff. Loves Steam and Indie Games, and loses a few paychecks to it every year. Enjoys anything and everything.
This is actually the most accurate thing I've seen posted about gamers
quote:
The problem: Casuals and Non-Gamers are just out of reach for the investment of a console. I think Miyamoto feels that. He knows they would have fun, they bought the Wii in droves, but they just left. Like you said, the Faux Mature gamer who injects a CoD every year is also frustrating to serve. Creativity often doesn't matter, just slick production values, "cool marketing" and a non-kiddy theme. Boom. Homefront. (what a crap game.).
Nintendo's problem is that they used to serve the gamer along with the casual, but their need to differentiate through price and slowing the hardware escalation made them unattractive to any gamer who DID value faster hardware more than average. They were forced into a wall because they could not invest the amount of money and take the losses of a Sony or Microsoft. Selling an expensive console is difficult if your customer base includes families and kids, and honestly, the Japanese who already live in a ridiculously expensive environment. They are extremely concerned with Power, Power Usage, Cost, Console Size, etc.
Nintendo makes for a fascinating case study on business strategy
This post was edited on 8/28/14 at 9:09 am
Posted on 8/28/14 at 9:10 am to DelU249
quote:
Nintendo makes for a fascinating case study on business strategy
Read Game Over: how Nintendo conquered the world
It gives you a great idea of how they go to where they are and where a lot of their strategies started.
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