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Message

re: top Hamas leader calls on Obama to stop 'holocaust' in Gaza

Posted on 8/25/14 at 10:49 am to
Posted by TX Tiger
at home
Member since Jan 2004
35640 posts
Posted on 8/25/14 at 10:49 am to
quote:

They are those with enough money and power to pull the strings. Do you honestly believe that things just happen by chance?




Agreed....I don't believe in coincidences either.
I've experienced coincidence. What I don't believe is coincidence on top of coincidence on top of coincidence, etc.
Posted by trackfan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
19691 posts
Posted on 8/25/14 at 11:10 am to
quote:

Why would the global elite need to bribe anybody?? Couldn't they just make one call and get the results they wanted ??

All U.S. Presidents have one-phone-call power when they first come to office, but Obama squandered his. When Obama drew a red line on settlements in 2009, Netanyahu was in panic mode, assuming that Obama was willing to back up his words with actions like Bush 41, the last Presdient to draw a red line on settlements. I remember reading a story about hom running to Hillary crying like a little kid asking, "What will I do?", because he knew that a freeze on settlements would collapse his government. Then at AIPAC's urging, Netanyahu decided to defy Obama and he didn't do a damn thing. If Obama had kneecapped Bibi then, he wouldn't be having all these problems with him today. Here's how James Baker put it at the time:

quote:

I don’t fault President Obama for making settlements an issue, but I do fault him for caving in. You can’t take a position that is consistent with U.S. policy going back many years, and the minute you get push-back you soften your position. When you are dealing with foreign leaders, they can smell that kind of weakness a thousand miles away. Both Democratic and Republican administrations have long endorsed the U.S. policy that settlements are an obstacle to peace. If “land for peace” is the path to a resolution, then settlements clearly create facts on the ground that foreclose the possibility of negotiations.

I would also stress that United States taxpayers are giving Israel roughly $3 billion each year, which amounts to something like $1,000 for every Israeli citizen, at a time when our own economy is in bad shape and a lot of Americans would appreciate that kind of helping hand from their own government. Given that fact, it is not unreasonable to ask the Israeli leadership to respect U.S. policy on settlements.

LINK /
Posted by Big12fan
Dallas
Member since Nov 2011
5340 posts
Posted on 8/25/14 at 1:12 pm to
quote:

Overall, Meshaal has been a terrible leader.


These Egyptian TV guys pretty well speak for me in regards to Hamas and their worthless leaders.

Rich & Fat Cowards
Posted by PsychTiger
Member since Jul 2004
99134 posts
Posted on 8/25/14 at 1:24 pm to
quote:

"This is our demands."


Nice thing to say when asking for help.
Posted by PsychTiger
Member since Jul 2004
99134 posts
Posted on 8/25/14 at 1:28 pm to
quote:

Where do you kooks come up with this stuff?


Posted by PsychTiger
Member since Jul 2004
99134 posts
Posted on 8/25/14 at 1:31 pm to
quote:

So who are "they" again??


LINK
Posted by trackfan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
19691 posts
Posted on 8/25/14 at 1:32 pm to
quote:

These Egyptian TV guys pretty well speak for me in regards to Hamas and their worthless leaders.

You do realize that Al-Sisi rid the country of all free media organizations when he overthrew Morsi, and that the only thing left if military-contrilled media, don't you?
Posted by Poodlebrain
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
19860 posts
Posted on 8/25/14 at 2:26 pm to
quote:

No Likud government will ever willingly allow them to control their own airspace and territorial waters.
Israel is exercising control over the airspace and coastal waters of Gaza in accordance with the Oslo Accords. Why would any Israeli leader give up that control without commitments from Hamas to end its attacks on Israel?
quote:

Then after pissing off the Jordanians...
How do the leaders of Hamas go about pissing off other Arab leaders? If they constantly piss off their friends doesn't it make sense that their declared enemies can't trust them?

You point out examples of other Arabs, supposedly friends of Hamas, trusting Hamas and being betrayed. Despite this you expect Israel, whom Hamas has sworn to eliminate and regularly attacks, to trust Hamas. Sorry, but Hamas has to establish some credibility that it wants to live in peace before any Israeli leader is going to consider giving up control of the airspace and coastal waters of Gaza.
Posted by trackfan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
19691 posts
Posted on 8/25/14 at 2:43 pm to
quote:

Israel is exercising control over the airspace and coastal waters of Gaza in accordance with the Oslo Accords. Why would any Israeli leader give up that control without commitments from Hamas to end its attacks on Israel?

Bibi and Likud don't recognize Oslo, you know that. As I was saying, no Likud government will ever cede control of the Gaza's airspace or territorial waters regardless of what Hamas promises. Just look at the West Bank if you don't believe me. Abbas' Fatah has met all of Bibi's demands, has refrained from attcking Israel, and Bibi still demands to keep permanent control of the Jordan River Valley as part of any final agreement.

Posted by JEAUXBLEAUX
Bayonne, NJ
Member since May 2006
55358 posts
Posted on 8/25/14 at 2:47 pm to
They can have Judea and Samaria as part of an independent Palestinian state. 1st recognize Israel as a state that can live without being bombed every day. and Bibi needs to guarantee no incursions into the new Palestinian state. Can Hamas even say the word Israel?
Posted by trackfan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
19691 posts
Posted on 8/25/14 at 2:52 pm to
We both know what Likud's charter says about Judea and Samaria, and Netanyahu doesn't want to meet the same fate as Rabin.
This post was edited on 8/25/14 at 2:54 pm
Posted by Big12fan
Dallas
Member since Nov 2011
5340 posts
Posted on 8/25/14 at 2:59 pm to
quote:

You do realize that Al-Sisi rid the country of all free media organizations when he overthrew Morsi, and that the only thing left if military-contrilled media, don't you?


Yes, I totally get that, but in the case of Hamas, I could not agree with them more. Hamas needs to be discredited by all of the Arab countries. They are sentencing Gazans to a more miserable life than they had previously and as an organization and government are a miserable failure.
Posted by PsychTiger
Member since Jul 2004
99134 posts
Posted on 8/25/14 at 3:00 pm to
quote:

Can Hamas even say the word Israel?


Yes, but by law the words "Death to" must immediately precede it.
Posted by asurob1
On the edge of the galaxy
Member since May 2009
26971 posts
Posted on 8/25/14 at 3:14 pm to
Easy.

The day after Hamas proves it can stop lobbing missiles for a week.

Then Obama can make that call.

Until then, watch Gaza burn.
Posted by Poodlebrain
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
19860 posts
Posted on 8/25/14 at 4:16 pm to
quote:

Bibi and Likud don't recognize Oslo, you know that.
Netanyahu's opposition to Oslo did not become effective until 2001. Hamas had already rejected Oslo, and was engaged in attacks on Israel. When did Hamas react to the Oslo Accords?
quote:

THE OSLO Accords, which were signed in 1993 between the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Israeli government came as a tremendous shock to the Hamas movement, which had been, at the time, escalating its military resistance against Israel.

Since the start of the first Intifada in 1987, Hamas had gained wide support on the Palestinian, Arab and Islamic street as a result of its military operations against the Israeli occupation. Hamas believed that the resistance should continue, that the Intifada had opened the path to liberation and that there was no other option.

The accords undermined this position, and Hamas immediately rejected, absolutely, everything in the agreement. It declared that it would not recognize or respect the Accords and would continue in its military resistance.

LINK
quote:

Abbas' Fatah has met all of Bibi's demands, has refrained from attcking Israel, and Bibi still demands to keep permanent control of the Jordan River Valley as part of any final agreement.
Netanyahu has not demanded permanent Israeli control of the West Bank. He has more than once stated that he could live with a two state solution.
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