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1
Posted on 8/23/14 at 9:02 am to Decatur
quote:
If HRC called Rand Paul an isolationist you guys would flip
Don't lie
She wouldn't be the person to level that charge at him. His endured this his entire political career.
Posted on 8/23/14 at 9:04 am to RollTide4Ever
quote:
Coolidge? Hell, Eisenhower would be called isolationist by neocon crowd.
Yep.
Posted on 8/23/14 at 9:15 am to LosLobos111
quote:
That's just not fair. Everyone knows that Hillary is a lesbian.
She goes both ways imo
With neither way involving Bill.
Posted on 8/23/14 at 9:20 am to PsychTiger
quote:
With neither way involving Bill.
Well, if you were Bill, could you get it up for
I wouldn't frick Hillary Clinton with Hillary Clinton's dick
Posted on 8/23/14 at 10:38 am to Decatur
quote:But he supports free trade! :endofargument:
We'll it''s not the 19th century anymore but he's probably the closest thing to it in the modern political age. Aside from his dad of course.
Posted on 8/23/14 at 12:40 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:Like I said, [NO SPECIFICS GIVEN]
The appropriate steps in Syria and the Ukraine would have been diplomatic
Posted on 8/23/14 at 1:09 pm to Iosh
quote:What you said was silly.
Like I said, [NO SPECIFICS GIVEN]
Specifics?
e.g., This Administration's habit of poking the eye of ME leaders w/o a clue as to consequence or a plan to deal with them. Mubarak, Assad, Gaddafi and the resultant ensuing melees bear witness.
e.g., Diplomatic advice to Ukraine not to threaten withdrawal from the Crimean Treaty.
Posted on 8/23/14 at 1:20 pm to NC_Tigah
Tell me SPECIFICALLY what Obama did to Mubarak.
Posted on 8/23/14 at 1:28 pm to trackfan
quote:
Tell me SPECIFICALLY what Obama did to Mubarak.
quote:
US condemns Egypt violence as attempt to manage political crisis fails
White House repeats Barack Obama's call for Mubarak to begin sharing power but falls short of public demand for resignation
LINK
quote:
Israel shocked by Obama's "betrayal" of Mubarak
Mon, Jan 31 2011
By Douglas Hamilton
JERUSALEM (Reuters) - If Egypt's President Hosni Mubarak is toppled, Israel will lose one of its very few friends in a hostile neighborhood and President Barack Obama will bear a large share of the blame, Israeli pundits said on Monday.
Political commentators expressed shock at how the United States as well as its major European allies appeared to be ready to dump a staunch strategic ally of three decades, simply to conform to the current ideology of political correctness.
LINK
Posted on 8/23/14 at 1:39 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:Which "Crimean Treaty?" The 1997 BSF Partition Treaty? The 2010 "gas-for-port" Kharkiv Pact? And when did they threaten withdrawal? Ukraine's interim government was presented on 2/26 and sworn in on 2/27. By this time Russia's little green men invaded Crimea and blockaded the regional Parliament, and on the very next day they would install their strongman as leader and schedule the "referendum."
e.g., Diplomatic advice to Ukraine not to threaten withdrawal from the Crimean Treaty.
At what point in this timeline did the interim government threaten to withdraw, and from what treaty in particular? Because if it was any time in March, then your counterfactual is retarded because Crimea was already under Russian lockdown at that point, so any "threats" made by Ukraine basically amounted to ineffectual fist-shaking either way.
Specifics.
This post was edited on 8/23/14 at 1:41 pm
Posted on 8/23/14 at 1:46 pm to trackfan
quote:Failed to help him suppress his populace. That's what all the "betrayal" rhetoric he's linking comes down to. We should have helped Mubarak crush the uprising in his own country, because being a brutal dictator who kills thousands of his own people and demands billions in aid/babysitting/ransom money is a small price to pay to have a True Friend Of Israel(TM).
Tell me SPECIFICALLY what Obama did to Mubarak.
Posted on 8/23/14 at 1:50 pm to NC_Tigah
Do you honestly think Mideast dictators are intimidated by Obama's words, and that all he has to do is tell them to resign and they'll step aside? Please don't tell me that you're that delusional, but if you are, please tell me why his words haven't worked with other Mideast leaders, such as Al-Sisi, Khamenei, Netanyahu and Assad?
Posted on 8/23/14 at 1:57 pm to Iosh
quote:
Failed to help him suppress his populace. That's what all the "betrayal" rhetoric he's linking comes down to. We should have helped Mubarak crush the uprising in his own country, because being a brutal dictator who kills thousands of his own people and demands billions in aid/babysitting/ransom money is a small price to pay to have a True Friend Of Israel(TM).
Yep. Their intellectual dishonesty prevents them from saying it, but Obama's critics really wish he had given Mubarak a green light to do the same thing to his people as Assad is doing to his people. These same folks say that Obama could have helped create democracy in Iran, if he had just been "stronger" during the protests following the 2009 election.
Posted on 8/23/14 at 2:06 pm to Iosh
quote:Why?
By this time Russia's little green men invaded Crimea
quote:Is there confusion about the term diplomatic advice?
so any "threats" made by Ukraine basically amounted to ineffectual fist-shaking either way.
quote:I'm not totally convinced you understand what either term means.
counterfactual is retarded
Posted on 8/23/14 at 2:12 pm to trackfan
quote:Hope is not a plan. Change is not an endpoint. If you push for change, you'd damn well better have a plan in place to deal with the aftermath. Egypt => no plan. Iraq => no plan. Libya => no plan. Syria => no plan.
Their intellectual dishonesty prevents them from saying it, but Obama's critics really wish he had given Mubarak a green light to do the same thing to his people as Assad is doing to his people.
Posted on 8/23/14 at 2:18 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:I'm pretty much totally convinced you don't understand anything about the Ukraine crisis, given your hand-waving context-less reference to "the Crimean Treaty," answer of my demand for specifics with more questions, and assumption that Putin gives a ghostly semblance of a shite about "diplomacy," but feel free to keep up the ineffectual repartee.
Why?
Is there confusion about the term diplomatic advice?
I'm not totally convinced you understand what either term means.
This post was edited on 8/23/14 at 2:20 pm
Posted on 8/23/14 at 2:39 pm to Iosh
quote:Likewise.
I'm pretty much totally convinced you don't understand anything about the Ukraine crisis, given your hand-waving context-less reference to "the Crimean Treaty,"
Posted on 8/23/14 at 2:52 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Hope is not a plan. Change is not an endpoint. If you push for change, you'd damn well better have a plan in place to deal with the aftermath. Egypt => no plan. Iraq => no plan. Libya => no plan. Syria => no plan.
This is the exact mindset that George Will criticized. How is the Arab Spring Obama's fault? Did you knew that a Tunisian street vender's self-immolation would send the Mideast into chaos? Why do you have so much faith in our government to shape events in nations half way around the world, but have so little faith in that same government shaping events in this country?
Posted on 8/23/14 at 4:51 pm to trackfan
quote:I have little faith in our current government shaping anything. But let's make sure you understand the post you were addressing.
Why do you have so much faith in our government to shape events in nations half way around the world, but have so little faith in that same government shaping events in this country?
quote:The Obama administration was not a passive player in Arab Spring uprisings. The "plan" was push it, and hope for the best. If you are proposing we stay out of such affairs altogether, within reason I'd say, great.
Hope is not a plan. Change is not an endpoint. If you push for change, you'd damn well better have a plan in place to deal with the aftermath. Egypt => no plan. Iraq => no plan. Libya => no plan. Syria => no plan.
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