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Started By
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re: Even Honest Trailers loves The Winter Soldier ( Lots of Spoilers)
Posted on 8/22/14 at 9:59 am to Green Chili Tiger
Posted on 8/22/14 at 9:59 am to Green Chili Tiger
The first one is so bad, it's absolutely shocking how good this one is...it's not dawn of the planet of the apes, but it's an awesome super hero movie
It rewatched CA1 and it is a marvel of political correctness
no swastikas even on non hydra Nazi officers
no American insignias on the gi uniforms
rewrites history...a black, an Asian, a Frenchman, a white; look how much everyone got along. Either address it or don't, but don't pretend some things weren't a particular way
the Nazis aren't bad guys...really, how are the Nazis portrayed any differently than the americans? For added confusion, hydra is the bad guy, but since everyone knows what the Nazis did (nah nah nah, we're not addressing it, nah nah nah nah nah) we want to make clear that our villain is evil...but he's not that evil. So for no reason whatsoever, let's have a scene where red skull kills some Nazi officers and says "heil hydra"
Heil hydra...that works in CA2, not CA1...
1 we can't show Nazis in their historical context
2 but we also cannot say Nazis are bad guys
3 we can't say americans are good guys
4 we can't have American flags or symbols other than CA's uniform
5. but we can have a scene with a shite ton of british flags
how you make a ww2 movie that ambiguous is beyond me, and I'm not a nationalist nor do I like black and white morality in movies, but holy fricking shite
It rewatched CA1 and it is a marvel of political correctness
no swastikas even on non hydra Nazi officers
no American insignias on the gi uniforms
rewrites history...a black, an Asian, a Frenchman, a white; look how much everyone got along. Either address it or don't, but don't pretend some things weren't a particular way
the Nazis aren't bad guys...really, how are the Nazis portrayed any differently than the americans? For added confusion, hydra is the bad guy, but since everyone knows what the Nazis did (nah nah nah, we're not addressing it, nah nah nah nah nah) we want to make clear that our villain is evil...but he's not that evil. So for no reason whatsoever, let's have a scene where red skull kills some Nazi officers and says "heil hydra"
Heil hydra...that works in CA2, not CA1...
1 we can't show Nazis in their historical context
2 but we also cannot say Nazis are bad guys
3 we can't say americans are good guys
4 we can't have American flags or symbols other than CA's uniform
5. but we can have a scene with a shite ton of british flags
how you make a ww2 movie that ambiguous is beyond me, and I'm not a nationalist nor do I like black and white morality in movies, but holy fricking shite
1
Posted on 8/22/14 at 5:00 pm to DelU249
I didn't even care for CA1 all that much but a lot of your issues seem to be really off the mark to me.
Why would Hyrda officers have Nazi symbols when they were loyal to the Red Skull and not Hitler?
There were swastikas in the movie BTW. Here is one from the news reel that Steve watches.
Here is is the USO show Hitler wearing one
One of the stooges Red Skull kills is also clearing wearing a Nazi arm band though its slightly obscured.
Not sure why this would bother you so much when 45 minutes into the movie its clear as day that Red Skull is working for himself and not the Nazis. Of course there aren't Nazi symbols everywhere. The people he has working for him are loyal to RS and Hydra alone. Just before they get waxed, one of the Nazi stooges even looks disapprovingly at a banner that has the Hydra symbol instead of Nazi symbols.
Hell, the whole reason they are even there to get killed is b/c they are investigating Red Skull's loyalty.
If you are talking about the flag being on the arm of the uniform it wasnt standard issue at the time.
The movie isn't about different races fighting together and the issues around them. IRL they actually did have blacks, Asians, Frenchmen, whites, etc fight alongside each other w/o problems. Also, those guys were in a Hydra prison together and had to fight their way out. Pretty sure a group of people who all had went though something like that together would quickly forget petty differences like race. Never mind that IRL many blacks stayed in Europe b/c they felt they were treated better than in the US.
On top of that, the Howling Commandos were hand picked by Cap. Why would he pick dudes that couldn't get past skin color to work with his select special forces group? (PS Dum Dum did briefly act like a dick to the Asian guy but that was before they fought their way out of the Hyrda camp.)
WTF? Of course Nazis are bad guys in this movie. They just aren't the big bad. Hyrda is a Nazi offshoot and THAT is who Cap goes after. Why the hell would they focus on Nazi stuff when that wasn't who they were fighting?
What are you talking about the villain is not that evil? Red Skull is performing Mengele like experiments on people at a secret base. He kills the Nazi observers b/c he DGAF about Hitler or his cronies. He is out for his own purposes and killing the Nazi henchmen was to clearly show Red Skull answers to nobody. How does that make him any less evil?
Again, the movie wasnt about Nazis. I have no idea why you need to have them shown to be horrible when they weren't even what the movie was about.
Why does it have to be explicitly stated Nazis are bad? Everyone knows they were bad dudes and everyone knows they were our enemy.
Again, why must this be explicitly stated? It was pretty damn obvious the USA was supposed to be the good guys in this flick. Did you not listen to the USO song and dance number?
LINK
This is just flat out false. There are American flags and symbols all over the damn place. The USO show was an orgy of pro USA.
Well they were in jolly ole England at the time. Big Ben told me so.
How you thought CA was ambiguous in any way is beyond me.
You made Cap haz a sad.
quote:
no swastikas even on non hydra Nazi officers
Why would Hyrda officers have Nazi symbols when they were loyal to the Red Skull and not Hitler?
There were swastikas in the movie BTW. Here is one from the news reel that Steve watches.
Here is is the USO show Hitler wearing one
One of the stooges Red Skull kills is also clearing wearing a Nazi arm band though its slightly obscured.
Not sure why this would bother you so much when 45 minutes into the movie its clear as day that Red Skull is working for himself and not the Nazis. Of course there aren't Nazi symbols everywhere. The people he has working for him are loyal to RS and Hydra alone. Just before they get waxed, one of the Nazi stooges even looks disapprovingly at a banner that has the Hydra symbol instead of Nazi symbols.
Hell, the whole reason they are even there to get killed is b/c they are investigating Red Skull's loyalty.
quote:
no American insignias on the gi uniforms
If you are talking about the flag being on the arm of the uniform it wasnt standard issue at the time.
quote:
rewrites history...a black, an Asian, a Frenchman, a white; look how much everyone got along. Either address it or don't, but don't pretend some things weren't a particular way
The movie isn't about different races fighting together and the issues around them. IRL they actually did have blacks, Asians, Frenchmen, whites, etc fight alongside each other w/o problems. Also, those guys were in a Hydra prison together and had to fight their way out. Pretty sure a group of people who all had went though something like that together would quickly forget petty differences like race. Never mind that IRL many blacks stayed in Europe b/c they felt they were treated better than in the US.
On top of that, the Howling Commandos were hand picked by Cap. Why would he pick dudes that couldn't get past skin color to work with his select special forces group? (PS Dum Dum did briefly act like a dick to the Asian guy but that was before they fought their way out of the Hyrda camp.)
quote:
the Nazis aren't bad guys...really, how are the Nazis portrayed any differently than the americans? For added confusion, hydra is the bad guy, but since everyone knows what the Nazis did (nah nah nah, we're not addressing it, nah nah nah nah nah) we want to make clear that our villain is evil...but he's not that evil. So for no reason whatsoever, let's have a scene where red skull kills some Nazi officers and says "heil hydra"
WTF? Of course Nazis are bad guys in this movie. They just aren't the big bad. Hyrda is a Nazi offshoot and THAT is who Cap goes after. Why the hell would they focus on Nazi stuff when that wasn't who they were fighting?
What are you talking about the villain is not that evil? Red Skull is performing Mengele like experiments on people at a secret base. He kills the Nazi observers b/c he DGAF about Hitler or his cronies. He is out for his own purposes and killing the Nazi henchmen was to clearly show Red Skull answers to nobody. How does that make him any less evil?
quote:
1 we can't show Nazis in their historical context
Again, the movie wasnt about Nazis. I have no idea why you need to have them shown to be horrible when they weren't even what the movie was about.
quote:
2 but we also cannot say Nazis are bad guys
Why does it have to be explicitly stated Nazis are bad? Everyone knows they were bad dudes and everyone knows they were our enemy.
quote:
3 we can't say americans are good guys
Again, why must this be explicitly stated? It was pretty damn obvious the USA was supposed to be the good guys in this flick. Did you not listen to the USO song and dance number?
LINK
quote:
4 we can't have American flags or symbols other than CA's uniform
This is just flat out false. There are American flags and symbols all over the damn place. The USO show was an orgy of pro USA.
quote:
5. but we can have a scene with a shite ton of british flags
Well they were in jolly ole England at the time. Big Ben told me so.
quote:
how you make a ww2 movie that ambiguous is beyond me, and I'm not a nationalist nor do I like black and white morality in movies, but holy fricking shite
How you thought CA was ambiguous in any way is beyond me.
You made Cap haz a sad.
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