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re: Marriage Equality Argument - Pretty good point
Posted on 7/28/14 at 7:07 pm to Mid Iowa Tiger
Posted on 7/28/14 at 7:07 pm to Mid Iowa Tiger
Anderson employs a very similar argument that people did when slaves were claiming they were being denied rights.
Just substitute "personhood" with "marriage". "Well Mr. Slave, you are not being denied rights because you are not a person".
Or woman
"Well Mrs. Suffragette, you are not being denied rights because voting is reserved for men"
Just substitute "personhood" with "marriage". "Well Mr. Slave, you are not being denied rights because you are not a person".
Or woman
"Well Mrs. Suffragette, you are not being denied rights because voting is reserved for men"
Posted on 7/28/14 at 7:12 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Anderson employs a very similar argument that people did when slaves were claiming they were being denied rights.
I would say your argument is valid with the points offered. However, no matter how much you want to permit same sex couples to join in unions, they still won't be married. Versus telling someone that they are not a human being with inalienable rights simply because of the color of their skin. Sorry, but they were wrong.
Quite frankly, I find it appalling when a homosexual says they are a minority. Just me.
Posted on 7/28/14 at 7:23 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Anderson employs a very similar argument that people did when slaves were claiming they were being denied rights.
Just substitute "personhood" with "marriage". "Well Mr. Slave, you are not being denied rights because you are not a person".
Or woman
"Well Mrs. Suffragette, you are not being denied rights because voting is reserved for men"
Did you listen to the video clip? He made no such argument.
The argument slaves were not people was on its face wrong and at the time it was made was recognized as wrong by most of the population. Simple science could prove that.
Marriage has been at its core a relationship of man and woman throughout history. There was a limited recognition of same sex relations but they were not recognized as marriages. Marriage was Man:woman.
This post was edited on 7/28/14 at 7:29 pm
Posted on 7/28/14 at 10:44 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Or woman
"Well Mrs. Suffragette, you are not being denied rights because voting is reserved for men"
THAT'S exactly what they were told and exactly what the Constitution provided.
Which is why the 19th Amendment was necessary for women to get the right to vote.
Which, if gays want a Federal Constitutional right to marry, is exactly what they should be required to pass.
If the pro-gay lobby got a Constitutional amendment, I would have no problem with a Federal Constitutional right to gay marriage.
And, since there is nothing in the Constitution that grants gay marriage rights, and nothing was ever intended to grant gay marriage rights, that's exactly what should be required. Or, as our Federalist system was designed, gays should be able to get states to recognize the right to gay marriage -- which, if they get that done in a Constitutional manner (i.e., not by judicial fiat), no one should have a problem with.
quote:
Freeing the slaves was a massive redefinition of personhood
Giving women suffrage rights was a massive redefinition of voting.
Why is "redefinition" a bad thing?
Nothing. As long as it's done in a Constitutional manner. As mentioned above, both of these "redefinitions" were done through specific Constitutional amendments.
This post was edited on 7/28/14 at 10:49 pm
Posted on 7/30/14 at 1:57 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Anderson employs a very similar argument that people did when slaves were claiming they were being denied rights.
Just substitute "personhood" with "marriage". "Well Mr. Slave, you are not being denied rights because you are not a person".
Or woman
"Well Mrs. Suffragette, you are not being denied rights because voting is reserved for men"
Not exactly. Anderson said there is a clearly defined and established legal/cultural/societal institution called marriage. The person at the microphone was, by definition, ineligible to participate in marriage and was not, by definition, seeking participation in it.
In your suffragette example, she is asking to be allowed to participate in voting by expanding the gender qualifier to include females. She is not asking that voting become something other than one person casting a vote.
Marriage at its core, as Anderson appreciates it, is defined solely by gender (male and female) and number of participants (two, one of each gender)). Age, race and mental health are peripheral qualifiers. It is in the qualifiers where debate and legislation may effect change, not in its essentials.
This is what I believe Anderson is arguing.
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