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Started By
Message
DC, Israel in pissing match
Posted on 7/28/14 at 12:32 pm
Posted on 7/28/14 at 12:32 pm
The rhetoric between DC and Israel has heated up recently.
LINK
Kerry and Obama have been pushing hard for an "unconditional humanitarian ceasefire" in Gaza, which Israel has bristled at in part because Hamas has honored NONE of the cease-fires that they've agreed to.
Kerry in particular pissed off Israel by insisting that Turkey and Qatar have a seat at the table of any peace discussions, despite neither being directly involved in the current conflict. Considering Turkey's anti-Israeli behavior since Edrogan took over, that one is a non-starter.
Both the left and right of Israeli politics are pissed off at the US over this.
Did I forget to mention that Kerry was specifically NOT invited to the discussions and yet showed up anyway despite being told he was unwelcome?
The White House, in response, has said that Israeli behavior could put the relationship between the two nations in jeopardy, specifically mentioning Israel's comments about Kerry himself and his plans for the cease-fire.
LINK
Kerry and Obama have been pushing hard for an "unconditional humanitarian ceasefire" in Gaza, which Israel has bristled at in part because Hamas has honored NONE of the cease-fires that they've agreed to.
Kerry in particular pissed off Israel by insisting that Turkey and Qatar have a seat at the table of any peace discussions, despite neither being directly involved in the current conflict. Considering Turkey's anti-Israeli behavior since Edrogan took over, that one is a non-starter.
Both the left and right of Israeli politics are pissed off at the US over this.
Did I forget to mention that Kerry was specifically NOT invited to the discussions and yet showed up anyway despite being told he was unwelcome?
The White House, in response, has said that Israeli behavior could put the relationship between the two nations in jeopardy, specifically mentioning Israel's comments about Kerry himself and his plans for the cease-fire.
15
Posted on 7/28/14 at 12:35 pm to teke184
quote:
Kerry and Obama have been pushing hard for an "unconditional humanitarian ceasefire" in Gaza
These unconditional unilateral ceasefires usually are one sided, but I trust Kerry and Obama to guarantee the Israel's safety, don't you? Why should the Israelis be worried?
Posted on 7/28/14 at 12:36 pm to doubleb
quote:
These unconditional unilateral ceasefires usually are one sided, but I trust Kerry and Obama to guarantee the Israel's safety, don't you? Why should the Israelis be worried?
I'm reminded of an exchange in the TV show Action, where Peter Dragon is trying to convince a bunch of Hasidic Jews to invest in his film.
He tells them to "get on the train" with the film and their response is "Whenver someone tells Jews to get on a train, it never ends well."
Posted on 7/28/14 at 12:37 pm to teke184
quote:"They" being who?
Kerry and Obama have been pushing hard for an "unconditional humanitarian ceasefire" in Gaza, which Israel has bristled at in part because Hamas has honored NONE of the cease-fires that they've agreed to.
Posted on 7/28/14 at 12:39 pm to teke184
quote:
Did I forget to mention that Kerry was specifically NOT invited to the discussions and yet showed up anyway despite being told he was unwelcome?
The #decline is real
Posted on 7/28/14 at 12:39 pm to teke184
Israel should never again agree to a cease fire. They should adopt a "tit for tat" foreign policy.
If Hamas wants peace, simply stop the threats and rockets to Israel. Every time Hamas threatens Israel, Israel will remove said threat by force and every time Hamas strikes Israel Hamas will be struck back.
It very simple. Peace is up to Hamas.
If Hamas wants peace, simply stop the threats and rockets to Israel. Every time Hamas threatens Israel, Israel will remove said threat by force and every time Hamas strikes Israel Hamas will be struck back.
It very simple. Peace is up to Hamas.
Posted on 7/28/14 at 12:40 pm to teke184
quote:The reason for Turkey and Qatar having a seat at the discussions is because Israel refuses to negotiate directly with Hamas. The entire point of having peace discussions is that, at some point, you discuss things with people you don't already agree with.
Kerry in particular pissed off Israel by insisting that Turkey and Qatar have a seat at the table of any peace discussions, despite neither being directly involved in the current conflict. Considering Turkey's anti-Israeli behavior since Edrogan took over, that one is a non-starter.
If Israel categorically rejects any discussions with not only Hamas, but anyone who might not be sympathetic to Israel, then the entire exercise is pointless.
Refusing to discuss things with anyone but Egypt, which is run by a dictator who generally supports Israel's latter-day "Hell or Connacht" platform for Palestine, is a meaningless show.
This post was edited on 7/28/14 at 12:43 pm
Posted on 7/28/14 at 12:41 pm to teke184
I think it is fairly obvious that the democrats don't really care much for Israel, but they see this as an opportunity to make themselves look good if they can get a peace deal to go through.
Posted on 7/28/14 at 12:43 pm to GumboPot
quote:
Israel should never again agree to a cease fire. They should adopt a "tit for tat" foreign policy.
If Hamas wants peace, simply stop the threats and rockets to Israel. Every time Hamas threatens Israel, Israel will remove said threat by force and every time Hamas strikes Israel Hamas will be struck back.
It very simple. Peace is up to Hamas.
As long as Egypt and the Saudis are on board with that, I don't see Israel having a problem with this.
Gaza can only be reached by three ways... borders with Israel, borders with Egypt, and by sea.
Israel controls the land borders and sea borders. As long as Egypt, and their sponsors in Saudi Arabia, are hostile to Hamas, then their supply lines are extremely limited outside of whatever supplies the UN is sneaking to them.
If Egypt can keep that border sealed, then the current Israeli operation may as well continue until all munitions in Gaza are spent.
Posted on 7/28/14 at 12:43 pm to teke184
quote:
He tells them to "get on the train" with the film and their response is "Whenver someone tells Jews to get on a train, it never ends well."
When I watch those old WWII black and white and color now shows covering the holocaust, it makes you wonder why the Jews kept getting on the trains. They surely must have known after a year or so, right?
I guess they had a feint hope that the result might be different for them.
Unbelievable
Posted on 7/28/14 at 12:44 pm to teke184
We need to just let them go at it for a little while....start trying after a week or so.
Posted on 7/28/14 at 12:45 pm to Iosh
I really don't know what there is to discuss.
As long as people are firing rockets into my country, it's time to fight and not stop til the people firing on us are killed or destroyed.
As long as people are firing rockets into my country, it's time to fight and not stop til the people firing on us are killed or destroyed.
Posted on 7/28/14 at 12:46 pm to doubleb
quote:
it makes you wonder why the Jews kept getting on the trains
I didn't realize they had much choice.
Posted on 7/28/14 at 12:47 pm to Iosh
quote:
The reason for Turkey and Qatar having a seat at the discussions is because Israel refuses to negotiate directly with Hamas. The entire point of having peace discussions is that, at some point, you discuss things with people you don't already agree with.
A country whose leader acts toward Israel like Erdrogan does pretty much forfeits their right to get to the negotiating table with Israel on behalf of another party.
Posted on 7/28/14 at 12:48 pm to doubleb
quote:
When I watch those old WWII black and white and color now shows covering the holocaust, it makes you wonder why the Jews kept getting on the trains. They surely must have known after a year or so, right?
I'm sure some did refuse to board the train and the others watching learned a lesson from that course of action as well.
I can't imagine that sense hopelessness and awareness
Posted on 7/28/14 at 12:49 pm to GumboPot
quote:At what point in this "tit for tat" equation does Israel release the 400 Hamas members it kidnapp--"administratively detained" in response to the murders which their own police are now admitting were the product of a lone cell? (And this is still without producing any proof. They've walked back to "lone cell, possibly Hamas-affiliated" entirely on their own.)
Israel should never again agree to a cease fire. They should adopt a "tit for tat" foreign policy.
If Hamas wants peace, simply stop the threats and rockets to Israel. Every time Hamas threatens Israel, Israel will remove said threat by force and every time Hamas strikes Israel Hamas will be struck back.
It very simple. Peace is up to Hamas.
Or are we still pretending this war started with rockets?
This post was edited on 7/28/14 at 12:50 pm
Posted on 7/28/14 at 12:51 pm to GhostofJackson
quote:
I didn't realize they had much choice.
Door 1 is you ride to your death
Door 2 you say screw it and everyone rushes the guards
I guess it's tough to open door number two.
Posted on 7/28/14 at 12:53 pm to Iosh
quote:
Or are we still pretending this war started with rockets?
No, but we are pretending the rockets, the tunnels, the soldiers, the arms just were available because of something the Israelis did.
The war is ongoing and never ceases, the rocket fire is just a symptom of the war.
It's all about wiping Israel off the face of the Earth and Israel not wanting to leave.
Posted on 7/28/14 at 12:56 pm to teke184
quote:Did he actually do anything (such as, oh, I dunno, boarding some Israeli-flagged ships in international waters and killing eight Israeli citizens), or is this just about him pulling a Godwin? RTE is a first-class a-hole, but if we shut people out of diplomacy simply for being first-class assholes there wouldn't be much of a point to it. KJI calls us Hitler on the reg and claims we are subhuman scum who will perish in nuclear fire to boot, and somehow we negotiate with him.
A country whose leader acts toward Israel like Erdrogan does pretty much forfeits their right to get to the negotiating table with Israel on behalf of another party.
This post was edited on 7/28/14 at 12:56 pm
Posted on 7/28/14 at 12:59 pm to Iosh
Him pulling a Godwin, him sending that flotilla to Israel and then calling for the Hague to investigate, etc., all disqualify him from being at the table.
Qatar has a better argument for being involved because they may support Hamas but don't have a history of getting into direct pissing matches with Israel like Turkey does.
Qatar has a better argument for being involved because they may support Hamas but don't have a history of getting into direct pissing matches with Israel like Turkey does.
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