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re: Dennis Prager breaks down Middle East problem in a nut shell
Posted on 7/25/14 at 11:26 am to Iosh
Posted on 7/25/14 at 11:26 am to Iosh
The point is that it's not all on Israel.
Others in the Arab world contribute to the Palestinian refugee problem.
That's all I'm saying.
Jordan isn't free of guilt here either. Neither is Egypt. Israel gets all the blame but they are not the only party who "imprisoniong" the Palestinians.
Others in the Arab world contribute to the Palestinian refugee problem.
That's all I'm saying.
Jordan isn't free of guilt here either. Neither is Egypt. Israel gets all the blame but they are not the only party who "imprisoniong" the Palestinians.
1
Posted on 7/25/14 at 11:32 am to Flame Salamander
quote:
No. You do understand that Egypt and Israel are two different countries. Gaza is in Israel, not Egypt.
You do understand that Gaza has a border with Egypt...
Posted on 7/25/14 at 11:40 am to doubleb
quote:
We can go back decades and find people on both sides who were terrorists, Nazi supporters, Communists, and others who were picked on and mistreated. But it's 2014. Reality is Israel is over 60 years old. Israel isn't going anywhere. We can either continue to see periodic wars with innocents on both sides getting killed, or people can try to get along. We all know what they are choosing to do, we see it everyday on the news
Exactly, and that's why overall I think the Arabs are in the wrong. At some point, you have to move forward.
Posted on 7/25/14 at 11:45 am to doubleb
quote:No, Jordan is pretty free of blame where the West Bank is concerned. All of the West Bank border crossings are administered by Israel, even the ones with Jordan. Although the West Bank isn't a "prison" to the extent that Gaza is. There is no blockade, trade is just very slow (no rail, no air, only back-to-back truck loading), vulnerable to long security delays and arbitrary confiscation by Israel, and not really independent since the Paris Protocol means major Palestinian trade policies (tariffs, VAT, labor regs) have to be pegged to Israel's.
Jordan isn't free of guilt here either. Neither is Egypt. Israel gets all the blame but they are not the only party who "imprisoniong" the Palestinians.
Posted on 7/25/14 at 11:45 am to a want
I don't think Americans would move forward if something like that occurred to them. If LA was occupied by Bama, the fight would be eternal.
Posted on 7/25/14 at 12:46 pm to Iosh
quote:
Jordan is pretty free of blame where the West Bank is concerned.
What about the East bank and other parts of Jordan? Weren't they once part of traditional Palestine? Aren't there 100s of thousand of Palestinians in Jordan?
Posted on 7/25/14 at 12:48 pm to rtts48
quote:
I don't think Americans would move forward if something like that occurred to them
It's a silly argument, history is littered with cultures, civilizations, etc. who were conquered or assimilated by another culture and they eventually come together to live in harmony.
I realize it's difficult and it doesn't happen overnight, but it can happen. It just hasn't happened in the ME.
Posted on 7/25/14 at 12:59 pm to doubleb
quote:Your point being?
What about the East bank and other parts of Jordan? Weren't they once part of traditional Palestine? Aren't there 100s of thousand of Palestinians in Jordan?
Posted on 7/25/14 at 1:01 pm to doubleb
I favor a one state solution with Israel taking all of the West Bank. Thus all peoples will be assimilated.
Let's keep in mind that Europe took over 1000 years to get to this point, finally ending all of their bloodletting in the greatest war of all time.
All parts of the world have had their reorganizations by war at some point or another. It's just happenning in the ME now, in the TV and Internet phase of human existence.
Let's keep in mind that Europe took over 1000 years to get to this point, finally ending all of their bloodletting in the greatest war of all time.
All parts of the world have had their reorganizations by war at some point or another. It's just happenning in the ME now, in the TV and Internet phase of human existence.
Posted on 7/25/14 at 1:13 pm to LSUGrrrl
quote:What, you didn't enjoy that ridiculously absurd steaming pile of propaganda bullshite?
I'd like to see someone break down the other side like this.
Posted on 7/25/14 at 1:21 pm to Iosh
quote:
Your point being?
It's not all a Jew v Palestinian problem.
Egypt is involved as you grudgingly admitted and I believe Jordan is involved too.
All of these MEern governments have their own agendas as do factions inside their borders and factions in Palestine.
Look at Iraq, Lebanon and Syria and you can see the different factions and their internal struggles.
The Israelis aren't involved in these battles yet there are thousands of innocent civilians getting killed.
I'm just trying to put things in context. These peoples have warred with each other for decades. Unless they accept their neighbors in and out of their borders they will continue to fight.
Posted on 7/25/14 at 1:42 pm to doubleb
quote:This.
It's not all a Jew v Palestinian problem.
It's a very complex problem, funded on both sides by the U.S.
Posted on 7/25/14 at 1:52 pm to a want
quote:
The Middle East
quote:
At some point, you have to move forward.
That'll be the day.
Posted on 7/25/14 at 1:52 pm to doubleb
quote:I've never claimed it was.
It's not all a Jew v Palestinian problem.
But responding to criticism of Israel by derailing into some abstract counter-point about the need for a pan-Arabist scheme of open borders is a pretty transparent deflection. The Palestinians in the West Bank don't want to leave, for the most part. They live there. The ones in Gaza only want to leave because Israel and Egypt have turned it into a bombed-out, poverty-stricken hellhole. If you allowed trade and enough industry for them to be self-sufficient, they'd be fine there too. A good portion of the Palestinians in Jordan would probably prefer a stable Palestinian state to life in a UN refugee camp, too.
Arab countries have a lot of flaws. They are corrupt, violent, and tend to be either sectarian or dictatorial, often both. But not opening their borders for the Israelis to shoo the Palestinians at the point of a bayonet isn't one of them.
Posted on 7/25/14 at 1:59 pm to Iosh
quote:
But responding to criticism of Israel
I responded to the part about Egypt.
Posted on 7/25/14 at 4:05 pm to rtts48
quote:
I favor a one state solution with Israel taking all of the West Bank. Thus all peoples will be assimilated.
The palestinians favor this too...but not the Israelis. They would be the minority and would lose every election.
Posted on 7/25/14 at 4:47 pm to Flame Salamander
I'll say the same thing I have been telling people at work, it will only end when one side wins.
We need to stay out of it and let it play out, somebody, most likely Israel will win, it will be ugly and full of atrocities but it may finally be over then.
We need to stay out of it and let it play out, somebody, most likely Israel will win, it will be ugly and full of atrocities but it may finally be over then.
Posted on 7/25/14 at 5:28 pm to Flame Salamander
quote:
The palestinians favor this too...but not the Israelis. They would be the minority and would lose every election
if only the West Bank, not Gaza, is annexed then Jews would still be the 2/3 majority. Also, Israeli Arabs don't vote much, they are 21% but only vote in number around 15%.
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