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re: Did Obama call for a cease fire when Hamas was shelling Israel?

Posted on 7/22/14 at 8:12 am to
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
111597 posts
Posted on 7/22/14 at 8:12 am to
quote:

It kills some of you to even recognize that the Palestinians have any legitimate grievances


No, it doesn't. But many people recognize that the ultimate (and almost singular) goal of those "running" the Palestinian side is to kill Jews. Both short-term and long-term goal. I don't GAF about any "nation" which governs with these goals.
Posted by ChewyDante
Member since Jan 2007
16926 posts
Posted on 7/22/14 at 9:08 am to
quote:

No, it doesn't. But many people recognize that the ultimate (and almost singular) goal of those "running" the Palestinian side is to kill Jews. Both short-term and long-term goal. I don't GAF about any "nation" which governs with these goals.


How widespread do you think that sentiment is? I'm sure there are a number who do take this approach but I don't see that as a general opinion of the Palestinian people nor do I see Hamas exclaiming that as their singular ultimate goal. That sounds a bit like fear mongering. I think they are driven to "kill Jews" bc they believe it to be necessary to achieve their political goals given that Israel uses force to establish the current order. That's any geopolitical conflict. Granted they use terroristic means to do so. Hamas is radical but they have only recently come to power after decades of political domination at the hands of the Israelis. And this current operation isn't going to rid the Israelis of Hamas or other extremist groups and will likely increase Palestinian feelings of desperation.

I used to have a similar take on this conflict as many of you but it's simply ineffective in ever offering a more permanent stability. If the Palestinians are going to forever be subjected to Israeli political domination then this conflict will exist in perpetuity. That is not good for Israel's long term security either. Particularly with the possibility of a few radicals getting a hold of any form of WMD.

I agree the Israelis have completely legitimate security concerns as well, especially when dealing with Hamas, Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad radicals. But the aggressive advancement of Jewish settlements and destruction of Palestinian homes by Jewish extremists also inflames the resentment. And utter disregard for Palestinian life, which I've seen manifest itself amongst Christian conservatives in the US much less the Jewish conservatives in Israel, is equally as counterproductive to resolution as is the disregard of Jewish life from Palestinian radicals.

I simply view this carte blanche for Israel approach to be one sided and rather dangerous. It's a complex issue, which is why it has raged with little resolution since Israel was reestablished in 1948.

Israel is the more powerful force and power actors typically use their relative power to attain more favorable deals. That's clearly a fundamental aspect of geopolitics. But subjugated weaker actors will typically resist political domination through some means or other. Both sides have been obstinate at times in making concessions. That's where we've stood for better than half a century. Neither side has clean hands and both have conflicting interests. Israel also has other external security concerns in regard to larger state actors around her as well, further complicating potential compromises with the Palestinians. The whole thing is a complicated mess and the oversimplification and blind support for Israel's interests is unsound, that is my general opinion and reaction to much of the sentiment displayed on this board.
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