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re: Are younger voters ripe to be converted to Libertarianism?
Posted on 7/18/14 at 2:12 pm to NukemVol
Posted on 7/18/14 at 2:12 pm to NukemVol
quote:
You need to have faith in the market to be a libertarian.
quote:
Can't blame them, who would teach them.
young people learn from mistakes quite well.. If the last two presidents havent taught them anything about econ, id be shocked.
Plus i think you can have alot of faith in freedom and personal choices and that can equate into a kind of free market faith
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Posted on 7/18/14 at 2:13 pm to weagle99
Young voters don't realize how dependent they actually are on government programs, etc. I know plenty of "conservatives" griping about Obama but also gripe about the outrageous interest rates on their student loans (6%) or receive some type of assistance or subsidy. The needle has been moved so far left that they think they're centrists (or even Republicans), but if they got a taste of true libertarianism, I'm afraid they'd be in for a huge shock.
Posted on 7/18/14 at 2:13 pm to weagle99
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/20/21 at 8:45 pm
Posted on 7/18/14 at 2:15 pm to petar
I was laughing at his blanket statement condemning all young people as spoiled brats. While there surely are a litter of spoiled youth, I don't think it's as large a portion as one may think.
IMO young voters are more likely to vote democrat because of the lack of choices. I believe most have libertarian views, but the simple fact of only having 2 choices makes them choose the lesser of the evils in their eyes. This young generation doesn't relate to the old conservative view of strong religious beliefs, anti-gay, anti-drug, anti-abortion, pro-war (maybe pro-defense spending is a better term), etc. Young people relate to social issues much more than foreign policy, economic policy, taxation, etc, therefore they vote for what they know they believe in, and democrats hold the edge on those issues.
If a true Libertarian candidate had the limelight and was able to run on the same platform as democrats and republicans, I think they would receive a large portion of young votes.
IMO young voters are more likely to vote democrat because of the lack of choices. I believe most have libertarian views, but the simple fact of only having 2 choices makes them choose the lesser of the evils in their eyes. This young generation doesn't relate to the old conservative view of strong religious beliefs, anti-gay, anti-drug, anti-abortion, pro-war (maybe pro-defense spending is a better term), etc. Young people relate to social issues much more than foreign policy, economic policy, taxation, etc, therefore they vote for what they know they believe in, and democrats hold the edge on those issues.
If a true Libertarian candidate had the limelight and was able to run on the same platform as democrats and republicans, I think they would receive a large portion of young votes.
Posted on 7/18/14 at 2:21 pm to rintintin
quote:The main issue seems to be bitter-arse conservatives continually asserting that younger voters disproportionately skewing Democratic "proves" they only care about social issues. The unstated premise being that if they cared about economic issues they would vote Republican.
IMO young voters are more likely to vote democrat because of the lack of choices. I believe most have libertarian views, but the simple fact of only having 2 choices makes them choose the lesser of the evils in their eyes.
Today's young voters mostly became politically aware during the Bush administration. What evidence do young voters have that Republican economic policies are anywhere close to libertarian that doesn't exist in history book--sorry, Wikipedia?
To say nothing of the third leg of politics which is never spoken of in these debates: foreign policy. Today's young voters also mostly came of age during the war on terror. The 2003 AUMF vote notwithstanding, young people remember who was more hawkish. They can also see now which side hasn't learned shite and is responding to every crisis with "WHY ISN'T OBAMA SENDING IN THE WEAPONS/STRIKES/TROOPS"
Libertarianism isn't solely maximalist opposition to the welfare state, unless you want to read out Hayek and Friedman. It's peace and liberty. One side is offering slightly better (although still pretty shitty) deals on two legs of the stool. The other, with the exception of Rand Paul and a few others, is offering exactly what it has since Nixon, but this time with Thomas Jefferson cosplay.
This post was edited on 7/18/14 at 2:23 pm
Posted on 7/18/14 at 2:28 pm to petar
quote:
that is not even taking into account how much you learn about the world from 18-30
That's it. Southern white 30 year-old males, the now-crowned kings of smarts.
Posted on 7/18/14 at 2:29 pm to Iosh
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/20/21 at 8:45 pm
Posted on 7/18/14 at 2:35 pm to Tigah in the ATL
No i was just responding to the idea that you don't fully settle into your political beliefs until you are atleast thirty.
and the post that the mind is most creative in your 30's.
obviously you learn much after the age of 30.
Posted on 7/18/14 at 2:37 pm to JOJO Hammer
quote:
. They want everything now and don't want to work for it. And their parents are to blame. Younger voters have been given everything and in return they gave nothing and therefore were taught nothing.
LOL said every older generation ever.
Posted on 7/18/14 at 2:41 pm to Iosh
quote:
The main issue seems to be bitter-arse conservatives continually asserting that younger voters disproportionately skewing Democratic "proves" they only care about social issues. The unstated premise being that if they cared about economic issues they would vote Republican.
Today's young voters mostly became politically aware during the Bush administration. What evidence do young voters have that Republican economic policies are anywhere close to libertarian that doesn't exist in history book--sorry, Wikipedia?
To say nothing of the third leg of politics which is never spoken of in these debates: foreign policy. Today's young voters also mostly came of age during the war on terror. The 2003 AUMF vote notwithstanding, young people remember who was more hawkish. They can also see now which side hasn't learned shite and is responding to every crisis with "WHY ISN'T OBAMA SENDING IN THE WEAPONS/STRIKES/TROOPS"
Libertarianism isn't solely maximalist opposition to the welfare state, unless you want to read out Hayek and Friedman. It's peace and liberty. One side is offering slightly better (although still pretty shitty) deals on two legs of the stool. The other, with the exception of Rand Paul and a few others, is offering exactly what it has since Nixon, but this time with Thomas Jefferson cosplay.
Brilliant post.
Imagine if you graduated college in 2007 or 2008, as some of my friends did. A few of my friends enrolled in college to get an economics degree - as safe of a career path as you could have in '02, '03 or '04 - only to watch as their major blew up in their faces.
Most Americans are, in essence, 'libertarian.' Whether you want a free society or a free market differentiates between liberal or conservative, IMO.
Posted on 7/18/14 at 2:44 pm to weagle99
Lol no. My high school friends all talked the talk about voting libertarian/3rd party. We're all 29/30 now and they've all voted straight D for the last 12 years.
I claimed to be a R in high school and I've voted for 3rd party candidates in almost every election.
I claimed to be a R in high school and I've voted for 3rd party candidates in almost every election.
Posted on 7/18/14 at 2:51 pm to weagle99
quote:
Are younger voters ripe to be converted to Libertarianism?
Absolutely not. As has been touched on in this thread, younger people think they are libertarian, when in fact, they are not.
For example, let's look at drugs. Younger people want the "freedom" to be able to smoke dope, but favor the government intervening and prohibiting employers from being able to fire them or not hire them because of said drug use.
Example two: Birth control. Younger women want the "freedom" to control their own bodies, yet favor the government to compel employers (or the taxpayer) to pay for their birth control.
In the end, the younger generation invariably turns to government to solve their problems (which are often of their own making), which is hardly libertarian.
Oh, and let's look at "economic libertarianism," as it's defined by the actions of the younger generations.
They want to keep their own money, yet favor government taking money from others to pay for social issues with which they are obsessed.
That's hardly libertarian, more like completely self-centered.
This post was edited on 7/18/14 at 2:55 pm
Posted on 7/18/14 at 3:00 pm to texashorn
quote:
younger people think they are libertarian
Disagree.
With the drugs example, I seriously doubt this ever becomes an issue as companies will prbly update their company policies to allow people to smoke pot off the clock in places in which it is legal. plus, I haven't heard too many youth calling for a protected class for pot smokers.
In hobby lobby example, i just think women want similar coverage for sex and gender related items as men have. I don't see it as a government intrusion issue like i don't see gay marriage as a government intrusion issue. While the perfect scenario would be the removal of government from the health insurance game.
but these are different issue for different threads.
Neither of these examples i dont think clearly define as libertarian or not. Libertarians can have different views on things. Im sure most libertarians don't like Ran Pauls stance on abortion or gay marriage. Doesn't mean he not libertarian.
Posted on 7/18/14 at 3:04 pm to texashorn
quote:
They want to keep their own money, yet favor government taking money from others to pay for social issues with which they are obsessed.
Can you give me an example of this behavior?
Posted on 7/18/14 at 3:05 pm to texashorn
quote:
They want to keep their own money, yet favor government taking money from others to pay for social issues with which they are obsessed.
What social issues require government money to be through into?
like besides a one time fix to rewrite laws, what would we have to pour money into
Posted on 7/18/14 at 3:08 pm to JOJO Hammer
quote:
No, younger voters are more likely to be democrats. They want everything now and don't want to work for it. And their parents are to blame. Younger voters have been given everything and in return they gave nothing and therefore were taught nothing.
Wrong.
This post was edited on 7/18/14 at 3:20 pm
Posted on 7/18/14 at 3:29 pm to petar
quote:
With the drugs example, I seriously doubt this ever becomes an issue as companies will prbly update their company policies to allow people to smoke pot off the clock in places in which it is legal.
And if they don't? See the lawsuit in Colorado about pot smoking by the Dish Network employee.
Alcohol is legal, yet employers can fire you for drinking, either at home or on the job. Yes, you read that right.
quote:
In hobby lobby example, i just think women want similar coverage for sex and gender related items as men have.
And if they don't get it? They favor government intervention to force them to do so.
You are doing a wonderful job of supporting my assertion.
Posted on 7/18/14 at 3:34 pm to weagle99
Like myself (I'm 24, btw), I believe a lot of people will go No Party instead of a 3rd party.
I have reasons to believe this, but I'm still kinda testing them out.
I have reasons to believe this, but I'm still kinda testing them out.
Posted on 7/18/14 at 3:42 pm to petar
quote:
maybe if there were jobs to be had, the young generation would work.
I hate this excuse. There are plenty of jobs out there. The problem is the younger voters think they should be given a job making 6 figures right out of college.
Also that liberal arts degree you got is not worth shite in the real world.
Posted on 7/18/14 at 3:47 pm to JOJO Hammer
Voting is for old people. Frick that shite. I always laugh at my dad when he tells me how terrible Democrats are and how great Republicans are. From my Libertarian perspective they look about the same.
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