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re: What exactly makes poor countries poor?
Posted on 7/7/14 at 9:21 am to Ralph_Wiggum
Posted on 7/7/14 at 9:21 am to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
Diseases were the main reason why their empires fell.
Absolutely this. They had no antibodies against small pox. Tenochtitlan at the time of the Spanish Conquest of Mexico was one of the largest cities in the world, having a population possibly exceeding 100,000 people. No cities in Europe at the time could rival that.
It is believed that upwards of 98% of the Native populations of North and Central America perished to disease between 1500 and 1600 AD. Of course the natives couldn't stop the white settlers, THEY WERE ALREADY DEAD!
In South America, far more natives survived. There are a lot more native Inca than native Aztecs around. The diseases certainly didn't help, but that empire fell more from without than from within.
1
Posted on 7/7/14 at 9:21 am to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
You didn't think of this. It's called Environmental Determinism and was discredited about 70 years ago.
I'm sure I was not the only person to think of this before I posted here but in fact I didn't even know the theory had been studied nor had a name. Do you have a good link discrediting the theory?
BTW, from wiki:
quote:
Economic Development
How big of a role does geography play in determining the economic growth of places? This idea that geography and nature matters to global development was shaped by notable scholars, Paul Krugman, Jared Diamond, and Jeffrey Sachs. The theory of Environmental determinism can be used to explain economic development of places at local, regional, and global scales. Using the principals from Environmental determinism, and identifying where population densities cluster, trends in worldwide economic development can plausibly be accounted for. Economic growth is measured nationally to quantify material wealth, using GDP per capita and is adjusted for purchasing power parity (PPP).[13] These universal units quantify qualitative differences in equality. The direct variables that account for Environmental determinism are; climate, location (close to coast and or river) combined with land composition, latitude, if land locked, and presence of infectious disease.[14]
Latitude
As latitude increases from the equator, levels of real GDP per capita increase.[21] The average GDP per capita in 1995 for tropical (low latitude) countries was $3,326 and for non-tropical (wid-high latitude) countries was $9,027.[22] It holds true that places in higher latitudes especially in the northern hemisphere experience higher standards of living, reap climatic advantages and better opportunities to input resources.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 9:22 am to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
Ralph_Wiggum
Colonization is a trite excuse for every ill inflicted upon this world. At some point a desire for freedom from tyranny has to take hold and the populace has to be willing to fight. Those that were colonized have largely traded foreign/external oppression for native/internal oppression.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 9:23 am to Scruffy
quote:
We lack freedom and self-governance, although not as completely as they do.
I disagree
Certainly we feel constrained sometimes but that because your freedom can impact society in a negative way..so we have lots and lots of rules and regulation.
In 3rd world countries, maniacs run around with bazookas taking property and pushing people around
Posted on 7/7/14 at 9:24 am to ApexTiger
quote:
I am dumb founded by how many people in the world live so poorly and are so mistreated.
A system with winners means there will always be losers.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 9:26 am to ApexTiger
dp
This post was edited on 7/7/14 at 9:27 am
Posted on 7/7/14 at 9:26 am to The Third Leg
quote:
A system with winners means there will always be losers.
And what system produces no winners or losers?
Posted on 7/7/14 at 9:26 am to ApexTiger
quote:
They lack freedom and self governance.
In general this is true, but why to they lack freedom and self governance? Are the people in the power structure of the old USSR, current North Korea, North Vietnam, African countries, Venezuela, etc....do they lack a "freedom" gene (that expressed itself though the people in power of successful countries through natural selection)?
Posted on 7/7/14 at 9:30 am to ApexTiger
quote:Thus we aren't truly free. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in anarchy, nor am I really a libertarian. I consider myself a realist, and although we are relatively free in many areas of our lives, that zone a shrinking.
Certainly we feel constrained sometimes but that because your freedom can impact society in a negative way..so we have lots and lots of rules and regulation.
quote:Well, in that aspect, they are more free than we are. They simply lack structure and any aspect of societal cohesion.
In 3rd world countries, maniacs run around with bazookas taking property and pushing people around
Posted on 7/7/14 at 9:33 am to Scruffy
quote:
Consider Africa. We do a massive disservice to those countries by sending them free clothes and food. It has ruined many of their national industries.
You need to read about colonialism. Africa is messed up due to European Colonialism.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 9:33 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
Two of my brothers spent considerable time in Haiti following the earthquake. They reported that Haitians worked hard as long as someone was telling them what to do and watching over them. However, the moment they were left to their own initiative all work immediately ceased.
I think it comes down to self initiative in group members. Its preached in some cultures as a virtue and is nearly non existent in others.
I think it comes down to self initiative in group members. Its preached in some cultures as a virtue and is nearly non existent in others.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 9:36 am to Erin Go Bragh
Due to corruption, lack of enforcement of property rights, ect they have no means of profiting from their own labors and initiative nor do they have any history of ever doing so. It creates such a mindset. It's the same thing you see in government offices or union shops.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 9:37 am to GumboPot
quote:
I'm sure I was not the only person to think of this before I posted here but in fact I didn't even know the theory had been studied nor had a name. Do you have a good link discrediting the theory?
BTW, from wiki:
I have to run, but there is a wide body of literature in Anthropology, Geography, History, Political Science, Economics and environmental science that discredit it.
How do you explain that countries in the Middle East which are low latitude counties have some of the wealthiest economies in the world? Of course it's oil. It has nothing to do with latitude.
Southern China which is low latitude as part of the Chinese empire was the most powerful and advanced country of the world at one time.
Indian Empires which were low latitude had powerful and advanced societies.
The Aztecs were low latitude and were advanced.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 9:38 am to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
You need to read about colonialism. Africa is messed up due to European Colonialism.
Africa was messed up long before colonialism.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 9:39 am to Erin Go Bragh
quote:
However, the moment they were left to their own initiative all work immediately ceased.
I think it comes down to self initiative in group members. Its preached in some cultures as a virtue and is nearly non existent in others.
The Caribbean culture is lazy for sure
Haitians are far worse than those in the Dominican. Not sure why, but apparently is a pretty noticeable.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 9:40 am to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
How do you explain that countries in the Middle East which are low latitude counties have some of the wealthiest economies in the world? Of course it's oil. It has nothing to do with latitude.
Rich ME counties were born out of western economies because they were sitting on top of something the west wanted, oil.
This post was edited on 7/7/14 at 9:47 am
Posted on 7/7/14 at 9:40 am to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
You need to read about colonialism. Africa is messed up due to European Colonialism.
So then why is Asian and the pacific rim doing so well? The answer cannot just be "colonialism" since there are plenty of counter examples to disprove the hypothesis.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 9:41 am to GumboPot
quote:
dp
It's my perception...
Feel free to try to change it.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 9:41 am to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:I know that. I don't believe that dwelling on the past is the proper way to address their problems though.
You need to read about colonialism. Africa is messed up due to European Colonialism.
There are issues affecting them now that are more pressing.
I know this thread is to discuss why they are poor, but people spend far too much time trying to determine the initial cause of everything as if it is even possible to alter that aspect or change something that already happened.
Did imperial colonialism cause many of the issues resulting in the current state of those countries? Yes. It is most likely the number 1 cause.
Nothing can be done to change that.
Posted on 7/7/14 at 9:42 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
what system produces no winners or losers?
None.
There is always someone winning, even in the most socialist, communist locales.
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