Started By
Message

re: BLM vs. Nevada Rancher

Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:22 am to
Posted by WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
44071 posts
Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:22 am to
quote:

That's fine an all and I don't disagree in principle. However, what is the basis in law for the BLM to collect grazing fees?

I actually appreciate rational discourse, thank you.

BLM and Its Predecessors

A Long and Varied History

The BLM's roots go back to the Land Ordinance of 1785 and the Northwest Ordinance of 1787. These laws provided for the survey and settlement of the lands that the original 13 colonies ceded to the Federal government after the War of Independence.

As additional lands were acquired by the United States from Spain, France, and other countries, Congress directed that they be explored, surveyed, and made available for settlement. In 1812, Congress established the General Land Office in the Department of the Treasury to oversee the disposition of these Federal lands. As the 19th century progressed and the Nation's land base expanded further west, Congress encouraged the settlement of the land by enacting a wide variety of laws, including the Homesteading Laws and the Mining Law of 1872.

These statutes served one of the major policy goals of the young country: settlement of the Western territories. With the exception of the Mining Law of 1872 and the Desert Land Act of 1877 (which was amended), all have since been repealed or superseded by other statutes.

Click here for a comprehensive list of all the legislation that gives BLM its "multiple-use" mission

But it's my understanding that if the federal government incurs the cost of acquisition, it's their land. Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

But I think Bundy's claim is that there is more to it than simple grazing fees. He claims he has water rights in perpetuity (as well as forge rights, IINM). Basically a right of way to access water.

This is not uncommon in property law. Land owners and their heirs and assigns can maintain rights of servitude to across another's property to access their own property or a road - in perpetuity.
Posted by DR Hops
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2014
301 posts
Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:23 am to
quote:

Unless you're assuming the cows were armed?


Apparently, the BLM had this same assumption.

Posted by WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
44071 posts
Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:24 am to
quote:

How did the federal government get to own the property in the first place?

War with Mexico. Nevada wasn't part of the Louisiana Purchase.

Neither were the Florida Parishes.
Posted by WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
44071 posts
Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:28 am to
quote:

Pull what...?

This shite:
quote:

Then you must have enjoyed what happened in Nevada...

No, I didn't enjoy it, why would you make the false assumption that I did?
quote:

...and who is you people?

That would be you people who false assumptions in a pathetic effort to make someone look like they're taking a position that they're not.

Why aren't you for property rights? (See how that works?)
Posted by Quidam65
Q Continuum
Member since Jun 2010
19307 posts
Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:29 am to
Another thing that puzzles me on this is why did BLM wait nearly two decades after Bundy stopped paying grazing fees before taking action?

I own rental houses and if my tenants are late, I may let them slide a month, but if they get two months behind, I start eviction proceedings.

The grazing fees appear to be annual payments, so I can see BLM maybe letting things go one year (especially with a serious drought), but not 20.
Posted by fleaux
section 0
Member since Aug 2012
8741 posts
Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:30 am to
quote:

Why aren't you for property rights?


Just curious, whose property were the penned-up bulls that BLM murdered and then buried??
Posted by WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
44071 posts
Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:32 am to
quote:

He's not an armed insurgent tenant.

Dude, you have serious mental problems. WTF do you even mean by "insurgent"?

Of course he's armed, he's a fricking rancher. He'd BETTER be armed - I would be.

He had cattle on property that is claimed by someone else. Does that someone else have a right to remove Bundy's cattle or not?

Why are you so against landowner rights?

I bet you'd be singing a different tune if someone was grazing your pastures without your permission.
Posted by DR Hops
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2014
301 posts
Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:33 am to
quote:

Just curious, whose property were the penned-up bulls that BLM murdered and then buried??


It's ok. These were government sponsored mass graves. Pay your taxes or your back yard is subject to such action. However, become a politician, change your political party to Democrat, and obeying the laws is totally up to your own discretion.
Posted by WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
44071 posts
Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:34 am to
quote:

Just curious, whose property were the penned-up bulls that BLM murdered and then buried??

If they were on my land, I would consider them mine.
Posted by moneyg
Member since Jun 2006
56384 posts
Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:35 am to
quote:

Why don't you want land owners to have rights to their land?


Holy shite. Did you just equate the federal ownership of lands to private ownership?
Posted by DR Hops
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2014
301 posts
Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:35 am to
quote:

He had cattle on property that is claimed by someone else.


Federal government is not a someone.

quote:

Why are you so against landowner rights?


Again, you equate the federal government to a private citizen. I've posted this before and you haven't given your rationale as to why you believe the federal government is equitable to the average citizen.

quote:

I bet you'd be singing a different tune if someone was grazing your pastures without your permission.


I don't know. I'd probably be more upset over someone claiming he now owns the rights over my property, without a purchase agreement.
Posted by CptBengal
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
71661 posts
Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:38 am to
he did, it has been the basis of his argument.
Posted by Lsut81
Member since Jun 2005
80101 posts
Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:39 am to
quote:

This shite:


You're the one that said that if SWAT was going to take your tenants out, you would grab the popcorn.... So I obviously wasn't far off in my question.

quote:

Why aren't you for property rights?


I am for property rights... Now please clearly lay out whos property it is... Why the BLM took it away from the county... Why the BLM didn't uphold their end of the agreement...
Posted by Lsut81
Member since Jun 2005
80101 posts
Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:40 am to
quote:

Holy shite. Did you just equate the federal ownership of lands to private ownership?


Yup, I am getting dizzy from all of the spinning
Posted by ninthward
Boston, MA
Member since May 2007
20383 posts
Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:40 am to
wow there are some posters here that know ZERO about what is going on
Posted by WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
44071 posts
Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:47 am to
quote:

Holy shite. Did you just equate...ownership of lands to...ownership?

Yes, yes I did.

The People have a right to have their lands protected. There is no adverse possession against the state. I respect that.
Posted by WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
44071 posts
Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:54 am to
quote:

Federal government is not a someone.

It is the People. We have rights.
quote:

why you believe the federal government is equitable to the average citizen.


Because they hold the People's lands in trust. They are tasked with managing the People's lands.
quote:

I'd probably be more upset over someone claiming he now owns the rights over my property, without a purchase agreement.



That happens all the time. Luckily the People's lands cannot be taken from them through adverse possession.

Let me ask you, the People pay for land in common, then someone decides they want that land for their own use and profit and simply set up shop. Should that give them property rights to those lands over the People? Should I just be able to go to any public land and build a house and farm the land for profit without any kind of agreement with the Public? Everyone incurred the cost of acquiring the land, why should I be the only one to profit?
Posted by CptBengal
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
71661 posts
Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:55 am to
quote:

It is the People. We have rights.


people have rights.

The government has a set number of limited, enumerated powers.

Good god man, are you really this confused about basic civics?
Posted by moneyg
Member since Jun 2006
56384 posts
Posted on 4/22/14 at 9:56 am to
quote:

Let me ask you, the People pay for land in common, then someone decides they want that land for their own use


Is that what's happening? Is Bundy preventing others from using that land?
Posted by WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
44071 posts
Posted on 4/22/14 at 10:00 am to
quote:

You're the one that said that if SWAT was going to take your tenants out, you would grab the popcorn.... So I obviously wasn't far off in my question.

You were WAY off. You are falsely assuming that I think Bundy is in the wrong.
quote:

Now please clearly lay out whos property it is

Which property? Bundy's private property, or the public lands that he believes he has a servitude across to access water in perpetuity?
first pageprev pagePage 3 of 7Next pagelast page

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookTwitterInstagram