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Is the biggest problem with America that we think we are worth more than we are?
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:05 pm
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:05 pm
I'm not big into political talk and don't follow it as closely as I should, but this seems to be the biggest problem to me.
From top to bottom, rich to poor, most people seem to think they and their children deserve more than they truly should. I won't go into much detail, just leave it a this simple question.
From top to bottom, rich to poor, most people seem to think they and their children deserve more than they truly should. I won't go into much detail, just leave it a this simple question.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:08 pm to NATidefan
quote:
most people seem to think they and their children deserve more than they truly should.
Agree.
The difference is that the responsible person gets what they EARN through hard work, ambition, and character.
The irresponsible try to seize it from others because they are lazy, do not want to work, lack personal responsibility, and want to blame others for their station in life.
One leads to success, one leads to failure. You choose.
This post was edited on 4/17/14 at 2:10 pm
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:12 pm to DR Hops
quote:
The difference is that the responsible person gets what they EARN through hard work, ambition, and character.
Yes, but I also think this group thinks they deserve more than they should... For example they bitch and whine when the price of anything goes up, but aren't willing to take a pay cut. Minimum wage isn't enough to survive on right now, but if you raised it then businesses would just raise prices so they can keep the same profit.
This post was edited on 4/17/14 at 2:25 pm
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:14 pm to NATidefan
quote:
I won't go into much detail
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:15 pm to DR Hops
quote:
The difference is that the responsible person gets what they EARN through hard work, ambition, and character. The irresponsible try to seize it from others because they are lazy, do not want to work, lack personal responsibility, and want to blame others for their station in life.
That's just dumb.
There's plenty of responsible people who have been abject failures.
Just as there have been plenty of lazy, irresponsible people who have become rich and successful.
quote:
One leads to success, one leads to failure.
It's the propagation of this myth of causation that is probably one of our biggest problems.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:22 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
There's plenty of responsible people who have been abject failures.
Just as there have been plenty of lazy, irresponsible people who have become rich and successful.
I understand you hold a worldview that really really wants to believe these two "axioms." However, unless you choose to apply a really skewed definition of the word 'plenty' they are simply not true at all.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:29 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
I understand you hold a worldview that really really wants to believe these two "axioms."
My examples are not axioms, they are examples disproving the axiom that hard work and responsibility will make you financially successful, while sloth and irresponsibility will keep you from being successful.
But yes, there are enough examples of both - ESPECIALLY very hard-working, responsible people that just never seem to get ahead - to disprove the myth, or 'axiom'.
The irony is that it's YOUR worldview that really, really wants to believe these two "axioms." I'm sorry to tell you, the world just isn't fair. Get over it.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:37 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
I'm sorry to tell you, the world just isn't fair.
The fact that you think my point has anything to do with this, pretty much says everything.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:39 pm to NATidefan
America's problem is that we've grown fat and lazy because we've had it so good for so long that we don't apreciate it anymore. And because we are fat and lazy, many would prefer to stay at home and get crumbs from the gov. instead of work.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:40 pm to Y.A. Tittle
Well this thread was hijacked fast.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:42 pm to Revelator
quote:
America's problem is that we've grown fat and lazy because we've had it so good for so long that we don't apreciate it anymore. And because we are fat and lazy, many would prefer to stay at home and get crumbs from the gov. instead of work.
I agree, but I also think a lot of those that work are fat and lazy and think they deserve more than they should. Especially the upper class workers.
This post was edited on 4/17/14 at 2:43 pm
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:43 pm to NATidefan
quote:
From top to bottom, rich to poor, most people seem to think they and their children deserve more than they truly should
This plus the fact that as a whole, we are fat, stupid and lazy is a recipe for disaster.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:45 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
plenty of lazy, irresponsible people who have become rich and successful
No doubt; and a lot of them politicos in the Democratic Party machine. Pelosi, Reid, Gore and Rangel come to mind.
But I know, WT...no shortage of them in the Republican Party too. Sittin on that Insider Trading 'perk' PO's me every time I think about it.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:49 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
WildTchoupitoulas
I'll give you a real life example of myself.
I was raised in a middle class family. My parents taught me the value of hard work. My dad was in the air force out of high school, and went to work at a plant for 30+ years until he retired. My mom used to work at same plant, but stayed home with me and my brother to raise us. We were not rich, but we were rich in life. Our parents provided for us. We never went hungry, but we never ate extravagantly either. My parents parents were poor farmers. They too, worked hard for what they got, and to give their children better opportunities than they had. They succeeded.
My brother and I were taught to never beg for things, never take from others, to work for everything you want, and you will get it. They also taught us that money was not to be idolized, and a fool and his money are soon parted.
I worked hard in school as a kid, and especially in high school. I knew if i did not apply myself and make good grades, that i would end up in working at a McDonald's making minimum wage. That was enough of a deterrent for me to do good in school. I am the first in my immediate family to go to, and graduate college. I chose a major that i knew i would always have a job, and i could become successful at. I'm more than half my dad's age, and already my salary is more than his was when he retired. I earned everything I have. From my car to my house, to the things i buy to eat and live, to the things i buy for enjoyment. But success is not measured in money or material things. The family and friends i have is my marker of success. Being able to raise my child to have more than I have is success.
So, with that being said, why should I have to pay more in taxes, etc... to subsidize another person who could achieve just as much as i have, or more? Every opportunity is out there for the taking. Equality of opportunity is guaranteed, equality of outcomes is not. Why must i subsidize others if they will not provide for themselves, given the same opportunities?
This post was edited on 4/17/14 at 2:52 pm
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:49 pm to NATidefan
This board has turned into 6 Degrees of Entitlements.
Any post can be linked back to "unemployed, lazy, leeches are to blame" in 6 posts or less.
Any post can be linked back to "unemployed, lazy, leeches are to blame" in 6 posts or less.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:54 pm to DR Hops
Edit: My bad. I didn't catch the second "Parents" in "parents parents"
This post was edited on 4/17/14 at 3:00 pm
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:56 pm to Green Chili Tiger
quote:
This reads like two different people telling their story.
His grandparents were poor farmers, and his parents grew up to be middle class factory workers. I'm not getting the confusion here.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 3:02 pm to DR Hops
quote:
So, with that being said, why should I have to pay more in taxes, etc... to subsidize another person who could achieve just as much as i have, or more?
I don't think you should have to pay more taxes, I think those lazy people not working should go to work. But why would they when minimum wage isn't enough to survive on and the government will support them, and some do go to work, but are still on welfare because minimum wage is not enough to survive on. But like I said, if you raise minimum wage businesses will just raise their prices and we are in the same boat.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 3:09 pm to NATidefan
For every dentist making butt loads of money there are 6 hygienists making around 10 dollars an hour.
There are much more jobs in the minimum wage area than I think a lot of people realize, and it's not enough money for those people to be able to have even a remotely decent life and raise even one kid on.
I know ALOT of people that work, and work harder than any engineer I ever worked with, and they can barely make ends meet.
There are much more jobs in the minimum wage area than I think a lot of people realize, and it's not enough money for those people to be able to have even a remotely decent life and raise even one kid on.
I know ALOT of people that work, and work harder than any engineer I ever worked with, and they can barely make ends meet.
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